NEW V8 MID ENGINED MODEL (BIG BROTHER)

It's hard to compare Tesla to Ferrari in the context of their economies of scale, business model, lifecycle, etc.

It's also worth mentioning that Tesla is in the hole so far for 6 Billion + another 3.5 Billion in tax subsidies and credits.

I like Teslas, there 3 Teslas in my family, but not apples to apples with Ferrari.

CF tubs will happen when the bean counters are overruled by the engineers, and to most customers - that's fine.

 

My point was actually that you don't repair it at all. You write it off if the accident is that bad and collect your insurance check. CF tubs don't get destroyed from fender benders. You need some serious force to really can that kind of damage. In the event you do, you just junk it and get an insurance payout.

If you wreck a 430, arguably a $80-90K car in non-wrecked condition, the repairs costs will still be enormous and you'll still have a wrecked title F430. Do you really want to repair and get that car back? I sure wouldn't. I'd want a check from my insurance.

These cars are not supposed to last forever, they aren't supposed to be super valuable forever, and no one is sending these cars to Classiche to be rebuilt. I don't understand the obsession with preserving old exotics of non-significance. When they get in bad accidents, they belong in the scrap yard just like anything else.

 

Yeah, but exotic cars aren't really bound by tight margins. Even if Ferrari paid 2x the industry rate per kwh for their batteries, the customers would still have no problem affording it. Also, they're going hybrid, not EV, so they likely will have tiny packs anyway. I think the LF had 2.9 kwh or something like that. 918 was maybe 7 kwh?

Remember, Porsche already sells battery packs of decent size in high performance cars. The Turbo Panamera hybrid has a 14 kwh pack and the replacement is about $10K I think. The top of the line Taycan Turbo will be 85-95 kwh and total all in is said to be around a $150K.

I maintain that people are way overestimating the pack replacement cost of the this car, or any future Ferrari hybrid. Batteries simply aren't that expensive any more. Even if you're not operating a "gigafactory", companies like LG Chem can still supply them reasonably cheap.

The wonderful thing about EV power is that electricity is pretty straight forward. Sure, you need to make sure your cooling system is sufficient, but it's pretty straight forward getting performance/power/tq out of a battery. Ferrari won't need to invent any crazy new high performance chemistry for their batteries that could drive prices way up. They'll be able to use many off-the-shelf ones.

 

An Armani suit doesn't have to cost X, Osteria Francescana doesn't have to ask for Y, and the Katara suite doesn't have to charge Z. New customers don't go to Ferrari looking for value or bang for the buck. As I said, you answered your own question above already.

 

The 430 is no 250, however, some folks that are not as affluent as others that can only afford salvage exotics. Others own body shops, have time, or just plain enjoy restoration. Many times the car can be ubiquitous, not valuable, and of no significance, but still, bring great joy to the owner.

 

But that's not something manufacturers care about. I highly doubt Ferrari designs their cars with those owners of salvaged 20 year old cars in mind.

 

That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying Ferrari doesn't price the parts for normal cars the same way as it does the rare, limited ones. This is why the battery packs in the hybrid, normal models are not going to cost as much as they do on an LF.

The batteries in their normal range hybrid will have replacement costs relative to the price of the car itself.

 

Ferrari doesn't care about reliability and longevity as much as Toyota. That does not equate that they care zero about it, nor does your difficulty in understanding why somebody would want to keep a 430 as long as possible means those folks don't exist.

Although, I don't think that had any bearing on why they have not adopted CF tubs on mainstream models.

 

You argue that Ferrari overcharges (which is a relative notion) - ask why - explain why - and are back again to the first notion that Ferrari overcharges.

 

There is a difference between overcharging $10 and overcharging $100. Both are overcharging, but the amount is much different.

Ferrari will overcharge for their battery pack, that is a given. Ferrari will not overcharge by $100K. The cost of the battery in a $600K normal series car will not cost as much as the battery in a $1.5M limited car. This is common sense.

If you want to see this in action, look no further than engine costs of various F140 engine models. LF prices are a lot higher, and it's not because it's so terribly unique and rare. It's relative to the price of the car and the customer base.

 

I have no idea.

The ethics/suitability of 'overcharging' is something I don't apply to luxury toys.

 

That's just BS. You should actually look up the price of parts for a Ferrari my friend. Many parts of the LaF fit other cars. The F12 and LaF share the same set of pistons, crankshaft, liners, etc. Exact same part numbers and exact same cost. You need to know more before you speak here. Most of the parts for an F12TDF are identical part numbers for F12B. Same cost. Do your work especially about batteries. Ferrari charges $600 to replace a standard +12v starter battery that you could source by yourself for $150. Also, that $600K or $1M for BB is base price. Out the door with all the must have options and then the registration you can add 30% or more in real cost. Look up the cost for a front wheel bearing or a brake caliper and rotor and see how many models they fit. Example - F60 America and F12 - look up the parts. One car was $400K and the other many millions - some say $6M to $10M. Parts are not relative to the price of the car.

 

This is true, manufacturers will cross share parts when possible. I've seen many examples like you described.

 

How much is an F12 engine replacement and how much is an LF engine replacement? Not just a crankshaft or a piston.

 

With or without the $200K battery - which by the way went up in price by $17,000 in the last 2 months.

 

The headlights remind me of Sergio' hopefully the rear is more like J50...

 

Without the battery.

Just doing a quick search on Scuderiacarparts.com, 4-point harness for a Speciale is $700 and a 4-point on the LF is $1600. Now is it the exact same part? No, but it's literally just a 4-point harness.

 

Look it up yourself when you lookup all the other parts I listed that are common across both products. I think you need to spend a lot of time looking things up to substantiate your claims.

 

Interesting question, what is the cost from the factory for a brand new F12 engine and new engine for a LaFerrari? (not secondary market) - I assume the factory also only sells to existing customers that had their engine damaged beyond repair.

 

Yes, you are correct, it's not the same exact part. This is example of a limited edition model part having a higher price differential then a lessor limited edition model part.

But this example doesn't disprove what solidstate said, that cross parts are the same price. Now could there be 'badged' parts? Perhaps.

It's been my experience that the cost and quantity of spare parts have inverse relationship with the number of units of the original product.

 

That's not really the point I was making. I didn't mean that every single shared part is going to be higher priced, but that parts of more or less the same type can typically be priced much higher regardless of manufacturing costs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is true in some cases, but that wouldn't apply here since the part you shared was not the same exact part. Now if you have some proof they are the same exact part, then you are on to something.

There are what about 5 times more Speciales then LaF? Surprised it was not 5X more in cost instead of just double.

 

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Inspired a little bit by the P80 or meanigless camo shape?

 

You're right , very similar rear shape .
Good spot

 

IMO The P80 spoiler is a lot more prominent that the camo car which appears similar but diminutive in caparison