NEW V8 MID ENGINED MODEL (BIG BROTHER)

Manzoni is not even a tech guy.

This is what the TOP Ferrari tech guy said yesterday:

Technically the V8 is difficult to keep alive but we are working on this, and in the mid-term we can maintain three families: V12 naturally-aspirated, V8 turbo and V6 turbo.’
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/ferrari/f8-tributo/

Cheers

 

Thanks for sharing Zeus.

 

Glad to oblige.

 

TL;DR: I think everyone will get to see the BB in late May, not just those attending the preview in Maranello.

I was looking for more informations about the interview between Manzoni and Quattroruote mentioned above and I found two other articles, one about him and his work at Ferrari (Auto.it) and another one about the BB with a couple of quotes by E. Galliera and L. Camilleri (Quattroruote.it - Links below if you want to check them; note: they're both in italian). Here two passages:

"Sarà presentata a Maggio e andrà in vendita nel 2020. È un'auto bellissima".
Translation: "It [BB] will be unveiled in May and it will go on sale in 2020. It's a very beautiful car".

"L’ibrida che, come annunciato uscirà a fine Maggio, è più legata a questa famiglia che all’altra”.
Translation: "The hybrid car that, as already announced, will be revealed at the end of May, is closer to this family [F8, 812] than to the other one [Portofino, GTC4]".

They both openly say that BB will be unveiled in May, which leads me to believe that's when the usual renders and PR will be published and everyone, media and enthusiasts, will get to know everything about it. Those who are invited to the preview will obviously have the chance to see it in person, which is a huge bonus. I think the same thing happened in September 2018 when the SP1&2 were revealed but I could be wrong about that.


Link 1)
www.quattroruote.it/news/industria-finanza/2019/03/05/ferrari_l_ibrida_in_arrivo_a_fine_maggio_in_vendita_nel_2020.html
Link 2)
www.auto.it/news/edicola/2019/04/27-2095040/ferrari_come_nasce_un_capolavoro_intervista_a_flavio_manzoni/

 

By the second translation, does that mean it will become the new flagship of the range while the 812 moves lower? Doesn't make all that much sense having a hybrid turbo V8 as flagship while the V12 is just midrange, especially considering the BB will be close to £200k more than 812.

 

The regular production V12 range as we know it today will probably cease to exist once they are done with all the 812 iterations.

 

That's apparently what Manzoni has stated in another interview I don't have access to.

The paragraph I quoted is part of a longer answer: he was asked if designing a hybrid or electric car is more challenging and he said that it's not, the number of challenges doesn't change even if their specific difficulty may vary. He also say that designers need to perfectly understand the type of product and stay true to it, while mentioning the differences between the "GT" and "Sports Cars" families in terms of spirit: more elegance vs more aero-focused approach. The Big Brother is, according to him, closer to the latter.

 

Hmm, that will be interesting. Seems like the 812s are already is quite short demand in London possibly a much shorter production life than the F12? It would make sense to make the V12s only for the halo range of cars. Does that mean in the next couple of years, there will be no products covering the £300-400k mark?

I'd be surprised if they have difficulty developing a hybrid aero focussed car considering how much downforce they can achieve when they put in a little effort into the special edition cars. Personally the V12 limited cars (F12TDF, 599GTO) never made much sense. Its based in the GT category but the special edition makes it a track car that is still compromised because of its weight and chassis design.

Anyone from london have more information on the car?

 

FR car has its shortcomings as well as all road cars of any type do when they are on track.
Personally, I find FR much amusing on track than MR or RR simply because of much controllable rear. So pushing V12 FR on track has more special feeling to me.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

The new MR and FR architectures have been developed for V12s, V8s and V6s and Leiters even said that NA V12s will still be part of Ferrari's core, so I personally see no reason to rule out a 812 successor at this point.

On this topic, I remember those who were saying that the F12tdf was the last of its kind, the last pure V12 machine. Ferrari then unveiled a 75% new engine, with larger displacement, more power and less emissions. Have faith.

 

It will take more than faith, unfortunately. It will take modification of existing planned government mandates.

 

I know, they will get even more strict in the future, but in 2022 40% of Ferrari's lineup won't be hybrid and I think some models will still have a V12. By then the "elegant Gran Turismo" and the Lusso/812 replacements should be announced and we will know for sure.

 

It was right until december., not today !
Remember this : codename F 167 project

 

Believed it was an icona project ?

 

"la macchina che presentiamo a maggio è la supercar che diventa l'ammiraglia Ferrari, quella che oggi è la 812 Superfast. Cosa vuole dire? Che la vettura al top della gamma sportiva passerà al motore centrale. In sostanza, torneremo alla situazione ante-550 Maranello".

Enjoy yourself with google translator.

Ciao

 

Why wouldn't you just make a translation?

 

"the car we are presenting in May is the supercar that becomes the flagship Ferrari, the one that today is the 812 Superfast. What does it mean? That the car at the top of the sports range will go to the central engine. Basically, we will return to the situation before - 550 Maranello ".

That means back to the day when TR/512 TR was top. But this time, unlikely V12 powered.

 

Ok, so, I looked up 'soft hybrid':

https://greenterrafirma.com/hybrid-vehicles.html

Mild Hybrid or Soft Hybrid
Mild hybrids are essentially conventional fossil-fuel vehicles with oversized starter motors, allowing the engine to be turned off whenever the car is coasting, braking, or stopped, yet restart quickly. They generally include regenerative braking, but mild hybrids do not have an exclusive electric-only mode. A mild hybrid will achieve fuel savings of 10% over the same vehicle with a fossil-fuel only engine.

Sounds pretty much like the current HELE system, so, I doubt that's what will power the 812 successor as it would seem to be exactly what powers the current 812...

and, why would the 812 successor be priced under big brother model that has a V8 ?? seems counter intuitive...

And, if 812 successor continues V12 tradition it would seemingly be priced higher than big brother, that would make it double current 812 price....so, makes much more sense F167 is V8 hybrid

By the way, F167, I think, was first mentioned nearly 2 years ago, lot has changed since then:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/2018-ferrari-812-superfast-review-1

 

I think that 40% non-hybrid will be V6 turbos in the entry level car...and maybe some Icona + Hypercar models, maybe, maybe, but, chances are those top end models will be hybrid, so the non-hybrid will be entry level cars

 

Seems like F167 is rear mid engine V12 project..

 

Are you supposing this or do you have an inside line and know this?

If big brother is to be the new flagship, seems such an F167 would be the new-new flagship and as such priced higher than expected price of big brother, would that would such an F167 in the realm of 700-800K US$ (700€+) ?

If so, seems pricing is going decidedly upscale in a big way!

 

Just tell to day355 , he was pretty clear about this .

 

What are the odds that BB is F167 ??

 

Ferr said a hybrid Portofino (coupé?) will be unveiled later this year. That one should have a V6 because I think a hybrid-V8 powertrain would probably be overkill for a ~600hp car. Agreed about the top-end models.

F167 (along with F164, Portofino, and F166) is mentioned in some curricula on LinkedIn as a front-engined car.

 

Curious, only found this:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/guillermo-jos%2525C3%2525A9-mari-ricotti-45304319

And he was working on composites and left Ferrari September last year...

It does refer to F164,F166, F167 as front engine...