Ferrari SF90 Stradale : picture and news thread

Finally someone spotted that difference in the photoshopped picture, wow. I think that,s because the Stradale is very recent to our eyes and we don,t memorize its original design very well yet.
Back to back comparison:
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Agree, but the tail pipes are the least of the problem on what is regrettably a VERY long list.

As a general production model I shudder to think of the electronic issues this car is going to serve up. Boeing 737 Max 8 comes to mind....welcome to the digital world of the Italian version of the electronic automotive masterpiece! Yup this ones gonna be like where are the Germans and Japanese when you need them!?!? The workshops won't know what hit them. It will be known as the "Sure F" 90.

Give me analog with no electric hybrid drive please! And no letter box slot under any circumstance!

 

Just saw this. So, no real s-duct? I already saw the thin vent, but looking at the open bonnet seems like there's no possible air flow upwards...

 

Looks to me like they designed the whole car ,not really thinking much about the rear lights ..then realised

Oh shi$$ we don't have enough space for da usual circular ones!

Never mind just cut off the top and bottom half ..should be ok!

 

Bit like wtf happened to the rear view - thought mama mia this is a lika looking outa a letter boxa slota so now we no longer needa a reverse gear! If the electrica power is stilly worky and somebody brava enougha to try reversing this spacehipa, then let let "da force" be witha thems.

 

Ahahahha

 

So now we have fake ducts/vents too? Please tell me that's not true!!!

If so, that''s another page right out of GM's playbook: plastic, fake vents that serve no purpose.

 

Per Ferrari's press release:

"The tail lights have also evolved quite radically from Ferrari’s iconic round shape. The eye-catching, more horizontal luminous rings create a more horizontal perception of the tail lights which in turn visually lowers the height of the tail."

Copying and pasting their round tail lights would have been easy/less risky for them and appeased the traditionalists. Like it or not, the SF90 sets a new course for their future designs. Expect the LB to share these tail lights (and the C shaped headlights).

Arm chair designers should consider the immense challenges involved with balancing aesthetics, performance, safety, function and legal considerations. Some other excerpts from the press release:

"The greatest challenge in crafting the aerodynamics of the SF90 Stradale was posed by the need to deliver downforce and aerodynamic efficiency at a level never before achieved either by Ferrari or its competitors, whilst simultaneously guaranteeing that all the subsystems of the new power unit (internal combustion engine, electric motors, battery and inverters) would always function as optimally as possible."

"The internal combustion engine, gearbox, turbo-charged air, battery pack and electric motors, the inverters and charging systems and brakes all need cooling. Meticulous attention was paid to the design of the engine bay which houses both the usual internal combustion engine systems that generate temperatures of nearly 900°C, and highly temperature-sensitive electronic components."

I think that rather than criticizing a design, one should first understand some of the "hard points" which engineers and designers need to collaborate and work around.

 

I’m very happy to be called odd but the original SF90 is far nicer. The other one looks like it is trying to be an F8 Pista at the rear. But when you see the sides and front are so different, the flow would be lost. Like the Mac 650, which was always a car that was an existing car with another face bolted on. Nothing matched. For months now we have been hearing people say “Ferrari need to get with it, do something new, the F8 platform is just too old.” Now they do something very different, from engineering to chassis to tech to design to performance to powertrain..... No problem at all for people to not like it - each to their own. But to want to put all the old bits back on...?!!

 

I don’t think so. There was quite a lot of discussion among attendees at the launch about how hard they had worked to keep this car much simpler than LaF - the open mule was just very very basic. In fact it seemed very simple and basic indeed, like they had focused a tremendous amount of energy in ensuring the end result was easy to build, easy to maintain and with not much to go wrong more than a standard ICE car.

 

You’re comparing a photoshop image that uses F8 rear lights, Pista rear deck and P1 diffuser and reflectors. Nice. The real thing is quite different and much nicer at the rear. Personally the front is where the most issues are IMV. Not terrible but I plan to spec colours to hide it a bit.

 

Rubbish. The tail lights are lazy design plain and simple. A designer, especially the director, needs to be aware and should know those lights are a direct copy of a Camaro's. Would they copy Lamborghini headlights? I would have had my sketch shredded to pieces if I did that. I know because I added flying buttresses to a Corvette project and my GM instructor lectured me about it.

I've worked on projects with GM, Ford and Chrylser so I know the drill. I'll bow to fchat user JM2's superior knowledge and experience but I have a feeling he'll agree with me here...

When designing any car there are certain "heritage" elements that are crucial to carry over and incorporate in each new model. The goal is to update them in a fresh spin but in a way that still has the original essence. There are certain design cues that make a Jeep a Jeep or a Jaguar a Jaguar. The best designers find a way to make these elements look new but still recognizable as the Brand's. The best will push the absolute limits of design yet when people look at the car they still know "That's a Ferrari!". They used to call it "brand heritage" when I was in design school.

To be fair it's not easy, sometimes companies get it wrong.

Ferrari got it wrong. Management should have caught it.

Of course design is subjective but if you look at the overall response from this design it is polarizing. I can't remember the last time I heard such negative feedback on a Ferrari. Even more telling to me is all of the designers I know are quiet on this car. Normally they fawn all over the latest design and use it as inspiration.

I know it my criticism might sound harsh but this is more than a car company to me. I've grown up worshiping them. It hurts to see them get it so wrong IMO. Their missteps in F1 and this design are soul crushing. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if seeing it in person changes my mind but I highly doubt it.

 

Having had the weekend to digest the wall of information at and after the preview, some thoughts and (obvious) questions:

1) Positioning: had the SF90 been announced as a limited edition, it would have been seen in the same mould as the LaFerrari - a showcase for the very best of what Ferrari can offer at this time. Some may have been lukewarm because it is barely faster than the LaFerrari but we have been there with F40 vs F50, only for the market to reappraise the latter a few years later. Instead we have a hugely technologically impressive and high performing series production car.

I think any comparison with the Senna is misguided. The Senna is not a showcase for new technology but a brutally focused road legal track car. To me, it is closest Ferrari in its DNA is the F40 alebeit 30 years apart, as is evident when I drive them back to back on track. Technologically simple, light weight, and totally driver focused.

2) Performance: with 1000hp and AWD, the headline numbers are undoubtedly impressive. The big question is weight. For my intended use, both road and track, a lighter car has always being preferable even with a slightly lower power-to-weight ratio. Ferrari are the undisputed masters at delivering a razor sharp handling response, and even my heavier cars (tdf, F12 and 812) have an alacrity that belie their weight up to a point. It is at the limits of handling rather than acceleration or lap times where the weight is truly felt. At 1800kg, the SF90 is unlikely to be go-kart like.

3) Engineering: The amount of technology packed into this car is truly astounding. Ferrari have pulled out the stops to hit the headlines, starting with HP. However, to get there, the last 220hp has come with 270kg of electrics, which is nearly same weight as the entire V8 engine including the turbo plumbing. To me that is a high price to pay. The interior and the new interface looks superb to my eyes.

3) Maintenance: much has already been said here about potential long term issues with batteries and parts. The car is highly complex even if the simplified mule at the preview stripped away a lot of it e.g. cooling, and many electronic sub-systems etc. But I expect, like all things Ferrari, for the collectible cars, parts will be available, OEM or otherwise, at a price. The economics of the parts business is just too good for a hole to be left and so, hopefully there will not be a parts drought. However, a little like the 3 year $4k engine-out cambelt service on a Testarossa, expensive maintenance will have an impact on long term values. If the car isn't deemed collectible, then I imagine it matters less, but hopefully not to the extent that it becomes discarded with the passage of time and technology.

4) Pricing: At first sight, the estimated EUR 500k-550k with options is a lot of performance for the money. But as a regular production model, with probably a targa and then a VS in the wings, it certainly won't be exclusive. I don't therefore understand the "better than LaFerrari performance at less than half the price" statement being used to justify value, anymore than a similar comparison between a 430 and an F50 (a friend's 430 manual, driven well, happily keeps pace with my F50). Also, we are arriving at an iPhone-like upgrade cycle with Ferraris, which could add to depreciation beyond what we have seen in the past (prior to the current bubble) with series production flagships.

5) Alternatives: Rumours of 812VS are abound. So a full throated 825-850hp NA V12 weighing perhaps 125-150kg less than the SF90 could be an attractive alternative at a similar or slightly higher price albeit with a touch less headline performance. Beyond Ferrari, McLaren is said to be launching its 720 hybrid within a few months with similar headline numbers but possibly at a lower price. Personally, no recent McLaren bar the Senna appeal, but their rate of progress on delivering a truly connected driving experience is notable.

Even beyond styling preferences, the car appears to have split initial opinions right down the middle, both here and also among the group of Ferraristi I met at the preview on Thursday.

No doubt the dealer will press for a decision in the next few days. I am currently sat on the fence on a truly first world problem, Thoughts welcome.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Photos by: Kibeom Bae

 

That livery simply ruins the front for me. Looks like a clowns nose!

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login
It shouldn't be a big problem
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The novelty of something new can not be underestimated. It also puts you in good stead for the next more conventional arrival next March. That Ferrari is said to have the engine in front of the driver. The Stradale may lack the nostalgic charm of an F50 but it does offer a very unique driving experience with gas and electric components.

 

Great post, and to me this point is well made. For the same weight the electrics provide less than a third of the horsepower, and only for one lap. It shouldn't be a surprise that Porsche have decided electrics don't make sense for the 911 given currently available technology.

But all car builders are under the same emissions constraints and marketing headline requirements. This is the future. If we want to replace our old cars with new, this is what will be available.

Would the car be better essentially as is but without the electrics? Less weight, less impressive headline horsepower. For many I suspect it would be.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

I do think it's a fascinating shape. The more I look at it, the more I like it. Honestly: it looks much better than Laferrari. My personal taste, of course

ciao

 

Anthony, I already weighed in on the SF90 in the Car Design Thread.https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146640530/

You are one of the guys I have the utmost respect for regarding design topics. I agree with you about design brand character as well. Ask me sometime about vertical taillights on Cadillacs. Or the faces on BMW, Rolls, Jeep, etc.

As you point out, the taillight shape does indeed resemble a Corvette/Camaro. Could they have avoided that and stuck with a round execution? One thing I am certain of. Those decisions are never taken lightly. The design management decided that the final design execution was the right thing to do. Is it? We all would have probably done it our own way.

As i stated in my other opinion, designers generally are cursed with the concept of 'I probably would have done it differently'. You and I probably would have done that rear end differently. I have no idea what criteria the design team was faced with. I've talked at length with the Corvette/Camaro Design Team about the rationale regarding the choice of taillamp shapes on Corvettes & Camaros. Several of my design peers hated the Corvette taillamp when they first showed up on the C7, but ultimately 'came around'. I personally would have preferred a round taillamp on the SF90. But having said that, I do understand why Mr. Manzoni wanted to break away from them. Was he right? As you know better than anyone, there is no right and wrong with design. Some choices are better than others. Judgement & execution. Is it new? Does it look like the brand? My criteria.

So in the end, I agree with your assessment about the rear end of the SF90. But I don't dislike it or hate it like many have stated. It is so difficult to design an icon like a Ferrari. If it were easy, anyone could do it. It's not, and they can't. Controversy surrounds cars like Ferraris. There is so much passion with Ferraris.Too much change, everyone gets up in arms and complains. Not enough change, people complain about being too conservative. At least no one is ignoring it, or calling it 'nice'. As an aside, several of my peers were discussing the SF90 over lunch last week. The consensus was 'they nailed it'. But there was discussion around the taillamp execution!

 

i like the round rear lights in photoshop.

But, look at the porto and 812....terrible designs yet they sell well enough to keep ferrari in business. So it doesn’t really matter.

 

Call me crazy, but I personally like the square headlights and rear engine cover of the Stradale.

 

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to call forum members who don’t like the tail lights as “armchair designers”. The lights are LED and as such can be any shape. Even a dodecahedron shape wouldn’t interfere with the aerodynamic design of the rear of the car. Further, I doubt there would be many on this forum who would question the technical expertise of Ferrari designers and engineers. Plus, packaging so much technology in such as small space is a challenge as is improving the aerodynamics of the car. However, although looks are very subjective, I certainly don’t consider the SF90 to a beautiful car. Mind you, this is coming from someone who still uses film cameras and listens to vinyl records so what the hell do I know ?

 

Flavio Manzoni explaining his SF90 Stradale design

Introduction






Part 1



Part 2


ciao