FORMULA 1 PIRELLI GRAND PRIX DU CANADA 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄ | Page 38 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 PIRELLI GRAND PRIX DU CANADA 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Jun 8, 2019.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Wait... so you're saying "cutting a corner " gave him an advantage and therefore should be penalized?

    Really?
     
  2. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    These two posts spotted what really grinds my gears about the whole issue. It´s not about loosing a race: Ferrari has won many and will win more. It´s not about the championship: it´s already lost since Australia.

    The problem is that they keep us talking about crap like this over and over again, things that shouldn´t happen with some proper rules and stewards. I suspect that they do it wrong on purpose just to keep us entertained between races. Also it makes easier to modify the outcome if needed. I suppose that was the same reason they didn´t introduce video assist in football while in basketball or tennis it has been working for decades.

    Finally they´ve bother to buy a ****ing video tape for football, so maybe there´s hope for Formula 1.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Bingo.
     
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  4. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Sorry Paul, but this isn’t what happened. Seb did not lose the car whilst being challenged for the lead, so any rules about being alongside etc DO NOT APPLY. When he rejoined the track, the rejoining manouvre did not end until the car was fully on track, pointed in the right direction, and under full, not partial, control. During this, Elton was trying to sneak up the outside, in a dangerous manner seeing as how he could tell Seb was fighting his car to maintain and regain full control, and when the ferrari levelled out, he found himself in the wrong place, duh, and had to gently brake to lose enough speed not to cause a massive accident. Again, no penalty I’m afraid.

    Trouble with rules is that we can all read them and interpret them differently, but what needs to be remembered is that they are written with the intention of being used to promote RACING, not penalties. Losing control for a split second is NOT a penalty attracting offence, hitting someone when it’s avoidable is, causing unnecessary obstruction is, but if you are not in full control of the car, and your competitor is able to brake and avoid trouble, then it is not a penalty situation, it is simply a racing incident and bad luck for the driver that was held up.
     
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  5. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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  6. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Truth is you could be 100% right, I don't know. I do know Seb did make an error again, as to if his correction was fair/unfair I will admit, I'm not experienced enough to know the technicalities. I appreciate your note and your passion as a fellow Tifosi.
     
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  7. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    nobody around him when he rejoined though right? So not 'unsafe' rejoining. As to pass through penalty, I'll let you guys decide.
     
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  8. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Vettel did absolutely NOTHING unsafe. Period. His penalty fit a narrative.

    In the video Elton gained much much ground by completely leaving the track and cutting a corner.
     
  9. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Paul... you know I’m the man in the know!!! I couldn’t show my face in the family house in Sicily if I ever failed to defend ferrari
     
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  10. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Forza Ferrari!

    Curious, what do you guys think of Leclerc? Second question, With Vettel's contract expiring in 2020; would you want to resign or go with another driver? If the latter, who?

    Cheers
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It's another unpunished Mercedes cutting the track and gaining a big advantage....whereas identical moves went punished for other drivers/teams.
     
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  12. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Just Mercedes buisness as usual, in the end it give sme some sort of satisfaction, because i know their titles are as holow as elton's head...
     
  13. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    COMPLETELY agree with this!

    I've been a Ferrari fan for decades. But in my opinion, continually blaming the competitors or the stewards for what are, fundamentally, Vettel's (and/or the team's) own mistakes ... this is not the best path for improvement, this is not the path to become world champions once again.
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If the stewards don't give a penalty, they get blamed. Monaco 2016

    If the stewards give a penalty, they also get blamed. Montréal 2019
     
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  15. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Stewards are recruited to enforce rules, but at their discretion.

    That's the problem.
     
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  16. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Your post just shows that you did not understand anything written in this thread: they are blamed to be inconsistent at best and biased at worst...
     
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  17. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Tend to agree with most of what you say but the rules are to promote "fair racing" but clause 2D of the sporting code for a driver to obtain a F1 licence states, albeit loosely,


    2d Causing a collision, repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned.

    The stewards are now in a situation whereby they MAY have to enforce the rule. May is key to the clause, they may consider it but didn't have to act on it. It should be noted that they gave another reason ie unsafe re-entry onto the circuit and leaving no room for LH which indicates they considered it but didn't act on that part of the incident!.

    I would add SV was in full control of the car and knew exactly what he was doing, likewise LH knew how to milk the situation by leaving the track notwithstanding the fact that his left hand tyres were still on the white lines and technically within the track limits!

    Best

    Tony.
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There is a fine line between cutting a corner because you messed up, and cutting a corner to straighten your line.

    That's the reason why going beyond track limits is considered a fault.
     
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  19. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    Cop to me: " I didn't catch anyone else speeding; I just caught you".
     
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  20. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    LeClerc is a very promising driver, he has more going for him than most of the grid at the moment, and at the moment it does seem he has dropped his over enthusiastic outbursts to knuckling down and trying to trust the team, which has to be the hardest job of all at the moment given their issues with race management. Unfortunately, he has to spend his first year at Ferrari driving a car incapable of winning due to a fundamental design issue, and tyre issues created by Pirelli’s close ties to Mercedes (the change to the current spec was done WITHOUT a vote between the teams, it was done on the supposed safety guidelines they created to suit, citing 2011/12 as examples of what they were trying to avoid - farsical, and has been pointed out by others, not just ferrari, as a change that detrimentally affects 9 teams and only benefits one, guess which one?).

    If he survives the extra pressure of having to fight for results, he may well emerge as the more complete driver, like an Alonso, and would I think then be a contender for best driver in f1.

    I do like Seb, his dedication and desire for Ferrari to win equal mine almost, but, as the seasons pass and Ferrari fail to provide him with the car to truly challenge (don’t anyone ******** me about 2017 or 2018, the car started out ok, and then the FIA changed several major components to our performance, and nullified it, and then the tyre debacle and performance enhancing aerodynamic wheels took care of the rest), and so he is in a cycle of having to make up for the shortfall of the car. This is proving his mental undoing. I think he will retire next year, maybe even this, and I would like to see ricciardo in the seat to have a season at least to test if he is the real deal or not. If he stagnates at Renault too long, his goose is cooked. By 2021, LeClerc, if he hasn’t become too disillusioned and left, will be team leader material, and it will either be ricciardo and he racing as duelling number ones, or maybe Mick will come to remind us how beautiful the side pods of a Ferrari look with the name Schumacher emblazoned on it.

    Finally, if F1 don’t do something about the fact, or if not fact, then the clear insinuation of Mercedes cheating, then F1 will die in 2021 unless Mercedes leave and go to Formula (BOR)E
     
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  21. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    interesting thoughts. appreciate your viewpoint.
     
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  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    But there is NO fine line if you LOSE time cutting a corner and saying it's an advantage.

    If you cut a corner for an advantage -- that's wrong

    If you cut a corner because you were out of control and lost time -- nothing wrong.
     
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  23. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Seb didn’t hit anyone, or anything, temporary loss of control has to be present in all motorsport, can’t tell you how many races I had tankslappers on Superbikes, but the key is did you get back under control, or bring out the flags or hit someone? Since Seb did not cause any issues, and Elton’s braking was gentle (no lock up) and under total control, and due to his petulant desire to try to overtake on the side where the ferrari would obviously be travelling after rejoining, a penalty would not be considered as the incident ended within seconds and caused no loss of positions nor danger.

    I’m all for penalising idiots that bring out safety cars, or hit people, or who gain an advantage, but Seb did none of these, and ended up helping Elton get on his tail after being kept at arms length for most of the race (he was out of DRS range on the lap in question, and had been for some time), therefore the penalty was really that he had a hungry racer on his tail, with DRS, and a reputation as someone who likes to dive into corners up your inside and expecting you to either let him through or crash... I don’t think Seb was gaining anything by his incident, and it certainly doesn’t demonstrate any issue with his driving any more than Elton’s lock ups virtually every single lap at the same point on the circuit (typically, if any racer I know starts locking up on one corner, we work out how not to within a couple of laps, and adjust our driving).
     
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  24. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    goodbye
    Vettel himself said, many times, that he had no control upon rejoining.

    Also, please check the video (areal view, in particular). Hamilton was certainly "alongside" (according to sporting regs definition), and Hamilton needed to put all four tires to the right of the white line, to avoid a collision.
     
  25. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Except if your driving a mercedes....
     

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