Don’t crashed planes get fixed?

love cruising YouTube...

Lots of videos on fixing salvage cars, motorcycles, boats, TVs, etc...

Not one video on repairing an aircraft.

What Gives?

 

Just like anything else, it depends on how badly it's damaged. And, probably more boring since most of the time it's professional mechanics doing a professional job, rather than some kids trying to make a buck.

 

I think you found your eureka-moment to start a YouTube channel and to become an "influencer" and make ad revenue. I'd watch that.

 

Maybe Ed China can show us how to fix a Cessna with a "pea of hardner" and a spray paint can.

 

I'm on a Citabria forum, and people post about buying project airplanes there regularly.

 

I always liked this one
https://gizmodo.com/bear-attacks-plane-pilot-fixes-plane-with-duct-tape-p-5447738

 

Many, many posts on this thread on repairing planes... Boeing has a crew for that purpose, they've done some incredible work.

Seen some before and after, no 'in progress' pics, though...

 

There is a series called Plane Resurrection on Netflix, not sure if it's still streaming, but lots in YouTube.

"Each episode of this series documents the restoration of an old "warbird" airplane by people who spend all the time and money needed to bring it back."

Here is a preview for season 2

 

There is a big difference between an aircraft that has"crashed" and one in a state of disrepair.
The trick is getting them airworthy certificates.

During my Navy career, I can't recall a bird that was crashed (similar to a car being totaled) being brought back to flight status.

 

All you need is the original data plate. Regs even allow a mechanic to make parts as needed, provided it can be shown they are equivalent to original.

IIRC Cub-Crafters began by re-building wrecked/crashed/dis-repaired Piper Cubs by starting from the data plate and crafting new parts as needed. They are well beyond that now, but that is how they started.

 

The return to service / inspection and highly trained (expensive) personnel requirements are a barrier to entry to the faint of heart and lite of back account. I have had my A&P for many years and though I got signed off for the IA ( not easy or cheap) and took the test (failed it by 1 point) the risk, liability and insurance requirements kept me from keeping up with an IA. Labor of love builds are different from fix-it-fly-it to use it as a tool builds.

 

No big thing. I was self taught in doing the mechanical stuff after I started flying....no, wait, it was after every landing. Didn't have to fix anything flying but there always seems to be a gear swing at the end of it.

 

The fuselage of the 757 that landed in Newark yesterday is pretty banged up around the front landing gear. It'll be written off I'm sure, which is sad given how good looking the 757s are...always nice to see one in service.

 

FAA has strict guidelines on who can work on certified planes, and the limits of owner repairs. The DIY folks are working in the experimental and homebuilt categories. So you won't find much on shade-tree work on a Cessna 172, but look for the RANS or Peitenpol or similar and you'll find the guys making the videos.

 

Yep, I’ve seen the kit stuff...

Toying with the idea of getting a Cessna 150. These things are dirt cheap, one for 17k near me...

I am starting to figure out that I likely can’t touch anything on this plane myself, or can I? Can I do any repairs? Tune ups? Reupholster?

Most of these planes look like nothing was don’t to them in 60 years... thought for sure there would be videos on folks updating them... nope...

 

The old Boeing AOG crew would have worked this one in their sleep. Just buff it out in the morning. I worked with many of theses guys and they were a breed no longer with us. Some 707's in the 60's that could have been totaled were back in the air in 30 days and that was after the entire upper fuselage or lower fuselage, engines, struts, lower wing skins, and landing gear were replaced. Incredible accomplishments.

 

You can do pretty much everything, provided it is done under the direct supervision of a A&P or IA.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/7B825903CAE15B5B86257B04005F77FD?OpenDocument
(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.

There is also a list of things that you can perform without such supervision, including changing oil and plugs, upholstering, and other items. These items are listed under preventive maintenance
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/BBC2477257CA6D8F86257B04005F71E9?OpenDocument
(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.
(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.
(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required.
(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.
(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.
(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere with proper air flow.
(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.
(14) Replacing safety belts.
(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.
(16) Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.
(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.
(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation is involved.
(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection of flight controls.
(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.
(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.
(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.
(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the balloon manufacturer's instructions.
(26) Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations.
(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and installation.
(28) The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a part of the aircraft type certificate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of the existing tank filler opening.
(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.
(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:
(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under Sec. 147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under Sec. 21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and
(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.
(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be
designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

 

Thanks...helpful...

So you can paint your own aircraft?

Can you upgrade navigation?

 

Kinda- you would have to find a A&P that would allow you do an “owner assist.” You may find one that allows it but they’re going to be skeptical of your wiring skills when their signature is the one in the log. Painting is probably a different story.

 

For VFR flying I would just use a portable (handheld) GPS unit with a RAM mount (or similar). Only thing in the panel would be a transceiver (com only) and transponder. Have a handheld transceiver as a backup.

 

good video of a Phenom 300 being repaired by a professional shop

they have a number of other videos on inspections, upgrades, interior completions/renovations etc.

 

There is a lot of liability in aviation. For that reason, repairing totaled airplanes is far and few. It also requires a Form 337 issued by the FAA/manufacturer, test flight approval, and often times ferry permits before it’s re-certified. The FAA works slow and hesitant to sign anything off. -this is for certificates airplanes. Experimental planes may be much different (idk).

Planes take far more G forces in flight than cars and they’re also built much lighter and therefor less tolerance for error. If there’s structural damage then most people just trash the plane. Airplane parts are incredibly expensive so parts value is often more than the plane itself.

Modern planes are made of composites. Pre 2000’s planes are mostly riveted aluminum. Most planes have aluminum frames. Even brand new general aviation (“GA”) Pipers and Cessnas are still aluminum. Nearly nothing has changed in their powerplant and airframe in 70 years because of liability and hoops for new designs.

Grumans are known for composite and they’re old. Cirrus is the iconic all composite plane now a days.

Planes cost so much money to repair. It’s probably best just to trash it and buy a new one OR if someone wants to wrench on a plane they should build a kit plane. However, resale value is terrible because they’re not certificated planes and would you really trust a plane built by a stranger?

Pics attached. Just happened to one of my planes. A pop up storm turned it 180 degrees, put its wing into the ground, and bent the prop, while parked on the ramp. Whenever a prop is damaged beyond repair or needs taken off the plane for repair, the whole engine has to be torn down and fully inspected $$$. This damage is about $20-30k, plus lost revenue.

Regarding why there are not a lot of YouTube channels for GA repair; aviation is dominated by old timers, especially general aviation. Most A&Ps (airframe and powerplant mechanic) coming out of school go right to turbine operations like airlines or cargo. Their maintenance work is much different than GA. Plus, liability. I don’t allow video on board my planes at any time. I wouldn’t want any videography going on as harmless one time mistakes can paint a bad picture in court to a jury that has no aviation knowledge. Example, I say “N12345 on left downwind for runway 18” and I’m actually on base leg and not downwind. I catch the error and correct it, but now a jury would think I’m out of control. Some A&P filming repairs could be critiqued, make an error, or do everything right and something still goes wrong but there was a different “right” method. Think about the whole Sully and Hudson River situation. Aviation is getting ruined by lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app View attachment 3161557

 

While I was in the 431st Test and Evaluation Squadron for F-111s at McClellan AFB (both now retired), we had an F-111F that had been made from a wrecked F-111D and a wrecked F-111F. Even had a unique serial number, 71-0895, which does not show up on any list because it was a black program. 71-0895 was a cancelled F-111F from a 1971 contract with the serial number revived for our Frankenstein F-111F.

 

I mainly deal with riveted aluminum skinned planes and aluminum frames which are somewhat repairable but very difficult from a legal, liability, and cost standpoint.
Fiberglass/carbon fiber frames and bodies are often far less repairable due to loss of structural integrity with repairs. The wing tips of GA planes are often a different material, like plastic, to aid in repairs of common damage areas.
Driving a rebuilt car is a lot more tolerable than a rebuilt plane lol. Secondly, we all know the headaches and costs associated with rebuilt cars, now imagine it with planes!!

To be clear, I manage flight operations and I’m not a licensed plane mechanic (A&P/IA); I just write the checks and manage employed A&Ps/IAs. . I’m a very experienced general aviation pilot, Chief flight instructor, and director of a large national flight school with 3 university contracts and many private locations. I’ve owned/operated my own flight school too, on a smaller level. My opinion is bias, but substantiated.

I’ve dealt with “hangar rash” of large private jets. $200k can disappear real quick for something seemingly minor. This is due to carbon fiber wings/control surfaces.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Just got the official repair invoice for the damaged plane in my previous post. $40k to repair the wing and tear down the engine. $13k for the prop. $5k for painting. $58k total. Inevitably, it always costs more than quoted too. This is on a $65k plane…. This is also with hourly rates about 1/2 what the average consumer pays for airplane repairs. And we thought Ferrari’s were expensive!


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app