360 F1 Alarm or Death Scream?

I driving yesterday and I heard a weird sound coming from behind the rear passenger seat I couldn't tell exactly where it was at. About every 5 to 10 seconds would make a sound between a screech and a horn. Shortly after as I was driving the F1 warning light lit up on the dash. I had a hard time shifting but made it home and the F1 pump no longer energizes. Does the F1 pump have an audible alarm or was that my pump dying? I have checked the fuse and it is good how can I check the relay. In the picture there's a red relay a gray one and the 50 amp fuse. Which relay is for the F1 pump and is that the correct fuse I checked? thank you for any help.
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I seems like an F1 relay failure, however I have never heard of them failing in the way you describe. Assuming you have a 430 or later model 360 the F1 relay is the red one and it's a cheap part to replace, see ferrari part 233100. If your problems continue after a relay change there's some other causes which are a bit harder to fix, but not insurmountable. I would then check the F1 pump and accumulator bulb pressure.

 

It could be the relay but it is probably the F1 pump going. It happened to me 2 weeks ago, 2 days and 300mi after buying the car. Ferrari wanted $2700 for the part. Maserati’s pump which is the same as Ferrari, $1100, the Lamborghini pump is the same but has a little bit different electrical connector. My mechanic not the dealership found one for $700. Two hours of installation time and the pump ran $1200.
If the car stops shifting altogether. Check the 30 amp fuse for the F1 pump and I’ll bet you dollars to donuts it will be blown.

 

I have a 2000 360 Modena. I was sitting in a drive thru idling in neutral for about 10 min. Pulled out in front of traffic and accelerated quickly. After about a quarter mile I started hearing the alarm??? The then when I stoped at a traffic light had trouble shifting gears. When I got it back in the garage I was lucky when I hit the brakes it dropped itself into neutral. I was trying to shift from third down but it wouldn't go. Now there is no sign of life in the pump.

 

I pulled the relay and opened it up. Looks fine inside. It is the 50amp relay. I thought that the early 360s had a 30 amp relay

 

This is a picture. I went through the service records and noticed this 50 amp relay was replaced about a year ago. Shouldn't this be a 30 amp. From what I understood it was not an exact Swap and it doesn't look like my wiring harness has been cut for this new relay.
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There is nothing in that ECU area that can make the sound you describe.

That sort of sound seems more typical of a hydraulic pump running dry eg F1 or power steering.
Have you checked the fluid levels.

If the pump is dying, then the question is not how to replace (no avoiding it), but rather what caused it to die.
i) any signs of cherry juice on the floor
ii) how quickly is it recharging - a) when idle and b) when changing gears
iii) get someone with a SD2/Leo to check the leakage rates of the solenoid.

 

That’s scream just sounded like it was behind your driver seat. I was actually on the right hand back part of the engine compartment where the pump is. It’s the exact same thing that happened to me. My car would only stay in neutral would not shift no response from the paddles. It also before the crash would pop out of gear. The person before me is right probably got the sound because it was the pump not getting oil. You could check the oil level but I have a feeling you’re going to need a new pump. Look at my avatar it’s my car being loaded on a carrier to take it up to the repair place.

 

If you are handy. There are a couple of pumps under $400 on eBay. But there’s no guarantee that they’ll work. Read this chat room a little further down and there’s a 430 topic that shows an aftermarket motor that you could attach to the pump and apparently it works for a 430. I don’t know if it will work on a 360 or not you have to be fairly adventuresome to go down that route.

 

Wow that relay looks yo be the same form factor open frame relay that TRW which I worked for in the 80's made millions of. The only difference between a 30 amp and 50 amp relay like that would be the quality of the contacts capable of running the higher current, however it is also possible that they could have a slightly different resistance in order to apply a stronger magnetic field for a tighter pull in force on the higher current contacts, as well as a slightly stronger spring to open the contacts quicker in order to avoid arcing and pitting of the contacts over prolonged use.

 

The pump is the exact same pump that Alfa uses on their Selespeed system...... they are around $400. There are several tutorials on youtube showing the replacement procedure.

 

I didnt realize the F1 fuse was on the driver side of the car I thought it was the Fifty Amp Fuse next to the relay. I checked the 30 amp fuse and sure enough it was blown. Replace the fuse and the pump is working fine now. The fluid level for the f1pump is full. I assume the audible noise I heard was the pump failing. Any opinions on using Alfa Romeo pump? Apparently they look identical in size and shape but what about performance? Also can anyone enlighten me on the Relay? I thought early 360's like mine had a 30amp.. does that mean the prior owner already changed it out I put in a new socket?

 

A) no leaks anywhere...Cherry color? My F1 fluid is clear..looks more like break fluid..is that correct color? Haven't looked up yet what fluid goes in there.
B) It takes about 5 seconds to charge.
C) Will look into find someone who can do this in NE Florida. No Ferrari dealers for hundreds of miles.

 

It's reasonably common to upgrade the grey relay to red by changing the base. I've done it on my car and it looks like it's factory fitted as the wires cut clean and re-terminate so there's no splicing involved if done correctly. This could explain why your car has the red relay.
Alfa pump is literally the same part. Don't pay Ferrari tax.

 

Here is the Alfa pump on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/c/24007104520
You may have to change the electrical connector.

 

There is a YouTube tutorial how to just change the motor no fluid draining pretty simple.

 

Thank you for all tbe advice. My only worries now is the Color of my F1 Fluid. Mine is clear/yellowish...looks more like brake fluid. I bought the car in May and had a PPI done and that should of been caught. Is there any other type fluid that isn't red that can be used? Anyone know of a good independent mechanic in Jacksonville Fl, NE Florida area?

 

I can say for sure that i know what youre talking about. I hear that pieping sound the first time at the day as my F1 pump died In a european F1 the piep is same or simlar as when placing the car into reverse and it indicate that youre leaving preasure in the F1 system. After a couple of minutes(or number of shifts) it goes into first or neutral and youre not be able to place it into any gear for now. I was stranded at the top of a mountain pass in the italien alps and 500km far from home. During the piping sound there was NO indicator light flashing. This comes later when the system is dead.

Later my dealer replace F1 pump, relay and the green 30 amp fuse.

So check your fuse first. My reserve fuse burns in the same second when opening the driver door.

Regards,
Joerg

 

The original spec fluid for the F1 system in your car was Shell Donax TX, which is no longer made, now Shell Spirax S4. Both of these fluids are red in color and are basically a synthetic version of Dexron 4 ATF. Neither of them is available in the USA, except from a Ferrari Dealer.

The F1 system in later Ferraris used Fiat Tutela CS Speed, which is amber in color, and then finally Pentosin CHF 11S, which is bright green in color.
I have seen earlier cars with the amber Fiat Tutela CS Speed fluid in them, which is probably what is in your car.

I wouldn't worry about it, as long as it is hydraulic oil/ATF and not brake fluid then you should be fine. Many people use Redline D4 synthetic ATF, which works fine.

 

Since the fuse failure have you had any other issues?

 

I replaced the fuse and the F1 energized that night but in the morning no life in the pump. Checked fuse again still good, relay look good but I dont know how to test it. Only other problem Ive been having is Driver side door window doesn't automatically drop when either inside or outside latch but I am able to lower it a 1/4 inch using dash switch and the window raises on it own.

 

Apply 12v to terminal 85 and 86 to energize relay. While energized, test terminal 30 and 87 with a multimeter for continuity.

 

Relay tested good. Just ordered a Alfa Romeo pump on eBay from UK. Thanks for everyones input.

 

I think more diagnosis may be in order. There could be another cause for pump failure...perhaps the accumulator is bad? If you simply replace the pump without more diagnosis, this new pump may fail shortly thereafter.

 

The pump is 15 years old? They wear out. Mileage?