Monterey auction week thread

California state law AB 259, chapter 1170
1861.608
(h) Cause or allow any person to bid at a sale for the sole
purpose of increasing the bid on any item or items being sold by
the auctioneer, except as authorized by Section 2328 of the
Commercial Code or by this title. A violation of this
subdivision includes, but is not limited to, either of the
following:
(1) Stating any increased bid greater than that offered by
the last highest bidder when, in fact, no person has made such a
bid.
(2) Allowing the owner, consignor, or agent thereof, of any
item or items to bid on the item or items, without disclosing to
the audience that the owner, consignor, or agent thereof has
reserved the right to so bid.
A violation of this subdivision is an infraction subject to a
fine of one hundred dollars ($100).

I would put money on it that Chandelier bidding breaches section 1 and shill bidding definitely breaches section 2 but a $100 fine is hardly going to stop any auction house from practicing either art, especially the first which is effectively impossible to detect. Could an auction house not simply use a non existent phone bidder as the patsy?

New York state law is
"The NYC Municipal Code also requires auctioneers to make such “disclosure . . . on signs prominently displayed in the auction room and at the entrance thereto, and . . . announced by the auctioneer immediately prior to the commencement of any auction.” The Code is explicit

about the sign requirements and contents, stating it must be:

[A]t least 12 inches by 18 inches in dimension with letters at least one inch high, and must read as follows, or convey a substantially similar disclosure:

The auctioneer may open bidding on any lot by placing a bid on behalf of the seller. The auctioneer may further bid on behalf of the seller, up to the amount of the reserve, by placing successive or consecutive bids for a lot, or by placing bids in response to other bidders."

Goodings specifically notes "RESERVES
Unless otherwise specified in the catalogue or announced at the Auction, the Vehicles will be offered subject to a reserve, which is the minimum amount that the Seller is willing to accept with regard to the respective Vehicle. Reserves are confidential and will not exceed the low presale estimate. Gooding may act to protect the reserve by bidding through the Auctioneer, who may open bidding below the reserve by placing a bid on behalf of the Seller, place bids on behalf of the Seller up to the reserve amount, place bids in response to other bidders or if the opening bid is below the reserve can elect to withdraw the Vehicle from bidding. The Auctioneer shall not be obligated to specifically identify bids placed on behalf of the Seller to protect the reserve nor will he place a bid on behalf of the Seller at or above the reserve. Sellers may not bid on Vehicles they have consigned to Gooding without prior announcement at the Auction."

Bonhams notes "4.2 If a Lot is offered subject to a Reserve, Bonhams may implement such Reserve by the Auctioneer’s bidding on behalf of the Seller, whether by opening bidding or continuing bidding in response to other bidders, until reaching the Reserve. If Bonhams has an interest in a Lot and the sale proceeds therefrom other than its commissions and fees, the Auctioneer may bid therefor to protect such interest. Sellers are not allowed to bid on their own Lots."

RMs website offers no guide to their use of chandelier bidding and neither did their Monterey catalog but its assumed they are the same.

So thats a yes to using chandelier bidding pretty much everywhere........ Even where its not strictly legal.

 

The Gooding & Company website is showing s/n 8011 as a post-block sale without a price. As I recall the bidding fizzled-out at $2.4 against a pre-sale estimate of $3.5 - $4.0, does anyone know what it sold for?

 

I'm still somewhat amazed that in the civilised world chandelier bidding is even remotely legal.

 

Call it what you will, accepting that the auctioneer can bid up up to the vendor’s reserve, that’s the way auctions work. Otherwise it’s “Any bids? No? Next lot.”

If the reserve is $500k and there are no bids to $475k but one real bid of $500k that wins it, the seller has been protected and the buyer gets it at the lowest possible price.

The issue is whether the auctioneer give the impression that he is receiving actual bids.

Some just chant the figures out randomly looking at the sale room without identifying “bidders”. Others give the impression it’s actual bidders. Legally and morally I don’t see the difference up to the reserve. Many cars had no bids whatsoever like the Porsche Type 64. Which is another story.

At Villa d’Este the RM auctioneer simply chanted up to the reserve looking at his book, waiting for someone to bid. Which looked a bit weird.

An extra complication at Monterey was that the reserves were reduced so weren’t really near lower estimate. Most auctioneers can be read, some easier than others.

 

Exactly. I have done many millions of dollars of business both as a buyer and as a seller with the major auction houses, and I have absolutely no problem with chandelier bidding below the reserve. As long as it stops before the reserve is met, and I assure you that the auction houses stop it before that. They aren't bidding against themselves and/or real money once reserve has been met; that would be a monumentally risky and stupid thing to do.

Now, when a car gets close to the reserve, and there is real money in the room, the auction representatives will put pressure on a seller to lower or drop their reserve, to get a sale done. But, again, they will be clear that there is real money on the table.

Just know the rules of the game before you play.

 

My favorite has always been I think it was back in around 2011 when Mecum was selling a Maserati Birdcage of somewhat questionable pedigree. Real bidding stopped at about half (+/- 1 million) of the 2 million plus pre auction estimate. When it became very apparent that the real bidding wasn’t going higher, the chandelier became active within about 10 seconds in 100k increments the bidding reach just under the 2 mil plus estimate.

Those damn algorithms of the program traders.

 

Well, I just was at Porsche in Leipzig. There is a little exhibition with different cars. There also was a basic body buck and some discription of the Typ 64.

 

Funny: Porsche denies it to be the first Porsche but then they write "Porsche Type 64" themselves....So if it suits them they use the Name Porsche, if not it only is a VW

 

EXACTLY!

AND... it even CLEARLY states it in the terms and conditions that the "auction house has the right to bid the vehicle up to its reserve"

Every single auction house has this stated in every terms and conditions that you sign off on.

The slander of people saying the chandelier when they have ZERO idea of what they are talking about is just STOOPID

 

Can someone please explain what is the practical purpose of opening and making or taking bids below (secret ?) "reserve" ?
Seems like a huge waste of time.
If the listing has a pre-set "reserve", why not just start there ?

 

Momentum.

 

???
Sorry, I don't get it. Practical how ?

 

if "ignorant people" see how the auction is working they don´t know where there is the reverse and they start bidding even the reverse is reached already. that is why the auctioneers bidding by themself also. same happens every day at ebay

 

psychology

 

Sorry, but I don’t see practical implications...
... especially if it doesn’t lead to a sale.
Why would any common sense person waste their time on something that stupid ?

 

Genuinely asking... and then I will explain...

Have you ever been to an auction or participated in an auction?

 

Yes, at classic/vintage car ones more than few times within past 4 decades, mostly inspecting & advising on specific lots or bidding on someone else’s behalf (under pre-determined instructions), but never bought or sold anything myself.
Have used “psychology” approach on some (non-reserve) eBay lots.

 

Just wanted to add that I’ve also been “in the room” when cars featuring my (complete) restorations were auctioned off, some even fetching “world record prices”, including couple that were bought merely because some bidders knew I had done them (not claiming or even wish to be associated with any celebrity status, but rather that in some small circles I’ve been known not to cut corners).

 

agree completed and I think most people would be surprised how many times there is no money biding on a car in fact on many of the no sales not one bid has been cast .... if a real buyer gets anywhere near the reserve they will push the seller to sell...... ... otherwise the auction would be kinda dull..they need to create the hype and excitement ....usually the longer the bidding drags out the less likely there is anyone bidding on a car its all about getting one real bid ....
in fact years ago a large corvette dealer had 2 cars he was selling at an auction and Dana Mecum was standing next to me (this was quite a while ago) and the cars sold for some outrageous price and the auctioneer announced Dana Mecum bought them so I looked a Dana and congratulated him for buying the cars he had no idea what I was talking about and the cars went back to the dealership and were back on the website a couple of weeks later advertised for sale ....
all kinds of things happen at auctions just have to pay attention...

 

I remember that Birdcage, a complete replica with a very few original parts that was offered with a very well written wikipedia page talking up how it was rebuilt by the original builders and was super, duper original lol. It was hilarious. Mecum like Barrett-Jackson are the home of the fast, loud, brash, cash bar/ free bar, etc. which can serve to encourage people to bid on cars they don't want and even to buy them. I see chandelier bids on the same continuum as auctioneers who don't specifically announce that the reserve is off. The best auctioneers elucidate that the car is for sale or selling at or words to those effect when the reserve is off and others you have no idea if you are bidding real money or below reserve or whatever.

 

So its been a week and I figure time for the results which are listed below but a brief recap is that anything within 20% of the low estimate was good going and mid estimate sellers were very very well sold

Key - Lot # - Year - Make/ Model/ S/N - Auction - Low/ High estimate - Gross sale (US$) - % under or over low/ high estimate or mid or N/A

152 1951 Ferrari 340 America Vignale Coupe 0132A Bonhams Quail On request On request $3,635,000 N/A
151 1952 Ferrari 212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0221EL Gooding Pebble Beach $1,700,000 $2,000,000 $1,600,000 -6%
256 1952 Ferrari 225S Vignale Spider 0214ED RM Monterey $4,000,000 $5,000,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
F113 1954 Ferrari 250 Monza 0432M Mecum Monterey On request On request Not sold Not sold N/A
263 1955 Ferrari 375MM Ghia Coupe 0476AM RM Monterey $5,000,000 $7,000,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
59 1956 Ferrari 250GT Boano 0581GT Gooding Pebble Beach $500,000 $600,000 $522,000 Mid
127 1958 Ferrari 250GT Ellena 0861GT Bonhams Quail $750,000 $950,000 $621,000 -17%
44 1958 Ferrari 250GT LWB California 1055GT Gooding Pebble Beach $11,000,000 $13,000,000 $9,905,000 -10%
17 1958 Ferrari 250GT Tour de France 0903GT Gooding Pebble Beach $5,500,000 $6,000,000 $5,100,000 -7%
145 1958 Ferrari 250GT Pininfarina Spider 0789GT Gooding Pebble Beach $7,000,000 $8,000,000 $6,800,000 -3%
334 1961 Ferrari 250GT Pininfarina Cabriolet Series II 3009GT RM Monterey $1,500,000 $1,800,000 $1,517,500 Mid
220 1961 Ferrari 400SA Aerodynamico Coupe 2631SA RM Monterey $2,900,000 $3,500,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
337 1962 Ferrari 250GT Short Wheelbase 3359GT RM Monterey $8,000,000 $10,000,000 N/R $8,145,000 Mid
131 1962 Ferrari 400SA Aerodynamico Coupe 3361SA Gooding Pebble Beach $2,800,000 $3,400,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
244 1962 Ferrari 196SP 806 RM Monterey $8,000,000 $10,000,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
331 1962 Ferrari 250GT California SWB 4131GT RM Monterey $10,500,000 $13,000,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
41 1964 Ferrari 330GT 2 + 2 5973 Bonhams Quail $375,000.00 $450,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
157 1965 Ferrari 275GTB 06887 Gooding Pebble Beach $1,500,000 $1,800,000 $1,572,500 Mid
55 1965 Ferrari 275GTB Alloy Longnose 08011 Gooding Pebble Beach $3,500,000 $4,000,000 Unknown Unknown N/A
254 1966 Ferrari 275GTB 8603 RM Monterey $2,200,000 $2,400,000 $1,985,000 -10%
F122 1966 Ferrari 275GTS 07967 Mecum Monterey $1,100,000 $1,400,000 $1,100,000 Mid
26 1966 Ferrari 330GTC 9333 Bonhams Quail On request On request N/R $450,500 N/A
187 1966 Ferrari 330GT 2 + 2 Series II 8361 Bonhams Quail $260,000.00 $310,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
340 1966 Ferrari 275GTB Alloy Longnose 08497 RM Monterey $2,900,000 $3,500,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
160 1967 Ferrari 330GTS 9787 Gooding Pebble Beach $2,000,000 $2,400,000 $1,765,000 -12%
F119 1967 Ferrari 275GTB/4 10735 Mecum Monterey $2,500,000 $3,000,000 $2,750,000 Mid
F123 1967 Ferrari 330GTC 10457 Mecum Monterey $450,000.00 $600,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
312 1968 Ferrari 365GTC 11969 RM Monterey $500,000 $600,000 $588,000 Mid
148 1969 Ferrari 365GTB/4 12301 Gooding Pebble Beach $1,200,000 $1,500,000 $995,000 -17%
249 1969 Ferrari 365GTS 12163 RM Monterey $2,250,000 $2,750,000 $2,205,000 -2%
128 1969 Ferrari 365GTC 12187 Gooding Pebble Beach $675,000 $750,000 $852,000 14%
174 1969 Ferrari 365GT 2+2 12751 Gooding Pebble Beach $250,000 $325,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
78 1971 Ferrari 365GTC/4 14461 Bonhams Quail $200,000 $250,000 $196,000 -2%
341 1971 Ferrari 365GTB/4 14189 RM Monterey $675,000 $750,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
28 1971 Ferrari 365GTB/4 cut coupe 13729 Worldwide Pacific Grove Not given Not given Withdrawn Withdrawn N/A
243 1972 Ferrari 365GTB/4 15569 RM Monterey $725,000 $775,000 $577,000 -20%
137 1972 Ferrari 246GT Dino 03656 Gooding Pebble Beach $400,000 $500,000 $375,000 -6%
326 1972 Ferrari 246GT 04970 RM Monterey $475,000 $550,000 $483,500 Mid
62 1972 Ferrari 365GTC/4 14871 Gooding Pebble Beach $350,000 $425,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
S95 1972 Ferrari 365GTC/4 15359 Mecum Monterey $300,000.00 $350,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
S113 1973 Ferrari 365GTB/4 Daytona 16537 Mecum Monterey $725,000 $800,000 $715,000 -1%
34 1973 Ferrari 365GTB/4 16501 Gooding Pebble Beach $750,000 $850,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
S89 1973 Ferrari 246GTS 05498 Mecum Monterey $375,000.00 $400,000.00 Unknown Unknown N/A
129 1974 Ferrari 308GT4 10746 Bonhams Quail $40,000 $60,000 N/R $39,200 -2%
S621 1974 Ferrari 365GTC/4 Russo & Steele Monterey $95,000 $125,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
31 1975 Ferrari 312T 022 Gooding Pebble Beach $6,000,000 $8,000,000 $6,000,000 Mid
36 1977 Ferrari 308GTB 22475 Bonhams Quail $70,000 $90,000 N/R $50,400 -28%
130 1979 Ferrari 308GTB 27927 Bonhams Quail $100,000 $130,000 N/R $67,200 -33%
142 1980 Ferrari 308GTBi 33487 Bonhams Quail $80,000 $100,000 N/R $60,480 -24%
3 1982 Ferrari 308GTSi 38767 Bonhams Quail $70,000 $90,000 N/R $73,920 Mid
S605 1983 Ferrari 308GTS Russo & Steele Monterey Not given Not given Not sold Not sold N/A
320 1984 Ferrari 512BBi 50965 RM Monterey $350,000 $425,000 N/R $423,000 Mid
S130 1984 Ferrari 512BBi 50285 Mecum Monterey $250,000.00 $300,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
316 1985 Ferrari 308GTS QV Targa 55969 RM Monterey $100,000 $150,000 N/R $140,000 Mid
241 1985 Ferrari 288GTO 55237 RM Monterey $2,550,000 $2,800,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
108 1986 Ferrari 328GTS 64385 Bonhams Quail $90,000 $110,000 N/R $72,800 -19%
S640 1986 Ferrari Testarossa 66499 Russo & Steele Monterey $125,000 $150,000 $117,700 -6%
364 1986 Ferrari Testarossa 66469 RM Monterey $150,000 $200,000 N/R $142,800 -5%
54 1986 Ferrari Mondial Convertible 61073 Bonhams Quail $45,000 $60,000 N/R $51,520 Mid
TH251 1986 Ferrari Mondial Convertible Russo & Steele Monterey $55,000 $65,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
S26 1988 Ferrari Testarossa 75352 Mecum Monterey Not given Not given Not sold Not sold N/A
173 1989 Ferrari F40 79763 Bonhams Quail $1,200,000.00 $1,500,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
111 1990 Ferrari F40 84944 Gooding Pebble Beach $1,200,000 $1,400,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
318 1991 Ferrari F40 87568 RM Monterey $1,500,000 $1,800,000 $1,682,500 Mid
T197 1991 Ferrari Testarossa 86474 Mecum Monterey Not given Not given Not sold Not sold N/A
T59 1993 Ferrari Mondial T Cabriolet 93501 Mecum Monterey Not given Not given Not sold Not sold N/A
315 1995 Ferrari F50 103351 RM Monterey $3,000,000 $3,500,000 $3,000,000 Mid
253 1995 Ferrari F512M 104065 RM Monterey $325,000 $375,000 $346,000 Mid
194 1995 Ferrari F355 Spider 104008 Bonhams Quail $70,000.00 $90,000.00 N/R Not sold Not sold N/A
F90 1995 Ferrari F355 Spider 103634 Mecum Monterey $100,000.00 $125,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
F427 1995 Ferrari 456GT Russo & Steele Monterey Not given Not given Not sold Not sold N/A
317 1997 Ferrari F355 Spider 107584 RM Monterey $125,000 $150,000 N/R $196,000 31%
18 1997 Ferrari F50 106765 Gooding Pebble Beach $2,800,000 $3,200,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
27 1998 Ferrari F355 Spider 109833 Bonhams Quail $70,000 $90,000 N/R $78,400 Mid
43 1999 Ferrari F355 Spider 113089 Bonhams Quail $80,000 $100,000 N/R $67,200 -16%
375 1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello 115751 RM Monterey $150,000 $175,000 N/R $156,800 Mid
S18.1 1999 Ferrari 360 Modena 119025 Mecum Monterey Not given Not given $80,000 N/A
F71 1999 Ferrari F355 Super Serie Fiorano 115937 Mecum Monterey $90,000.00 $110,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
S170 2000 Ferrari 550 Maranello 121851 Mecum Monterey $150,000.00 $175,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
4 2001 Ferrari 550 Barchetta 124044 Gooding Pebble Beach $350,000 $400,000 $307,500 -12%
311 2004 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale 134741 RM Monterey $220,000 $240,000 N/R $218,400 -1%
153 2004 Ferrari 575M Maranello 136320 Gooding Pebble Beach $100,000 $130,000 N/R $100,800 Mid
213 2004 Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale 134376 Bonhams Quail $175,000.00 $225,000.00 Sold Sold N/A
140 2005 Ferrari 575 Superamerica 143103 Gooding Pebble Beach $275,000 $325,000 N/R $240,800 -12%
S173 2005 Ferrari 575 Superamerica 145103 Mecum Monterey $350,000.00 $400,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
322 2006 Ferrari FXX 146355 RM Monterey $2,850,000 $3,250,000 $3,520,000 8%
S176 2006 Ferrari F430 Spider 151053 Mecum Monterey $190,000.00 $220,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
32 2007 Ferrari F430 Challenge 152244 Gooding Pebble Beach $100,000 $130,000 N/R $72,800 -27%
319 2007 Ferrari F430 Spider 156806 RM Monterey $200,000 $250,000 N/R $201,600 Mid
F451 2007 Ferrari 599GTB Fiorano Russo & Steele Monterey $150,000 $175,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
45 2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia 164334 Gooding Pebble Beach $220,000 $260,000 N/R $184,800 -16%
346 2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia 161467 RM Monterey $180,000 $220,000 N/R $196,000 Mid
107 2009 Ferrari F430M Scuderia 16M 167276 Bonhams Quail $270,000.00 $320,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
34 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia 180805 Bonhams Quail $160,000 $190,000 N/R $162,400 Mid
11 2011 Ferrari 599 GTO 177203 Gooding Pebble Beach $600,000 $700,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
S107 2011 Ferrari 599GTO 176914 Mecum Monterey $500,000.00 $550,000.00 Not sold Not sold N/A
9 2013 Ferrari 458 Spider 194210 Gooding Pebble Beach $230,000 $260,000 N/R $229,600 Mid
321 2013 Ferrari 458 Spider 193700 RM Monterey $225,000 $275,000 N/R $357,000 30%
S102 2014 Ferrari LaFerrari 207602 Mecum Monterey $2,750,000 $3,500,000 $2,640,000 -4%
324 2014 Ferrari LaFerrari 205297 RM Monterey $2,900,000 $3,400,000 $2,947,500 Mid
50 2014 Ferrari La Ferrari 207440 Gooding Pebble Beach $2,800,000 $3,200,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
58 2014 Ferrari Sergio 205934 Gooding Pebble Beach $2,500,000 $3,000,000 Not sold Not sold N/A
192 2017 Ferrari F12 TDf 222634 Bonhams Quail $975,000 $1,100,000 $907,000 -7%
165 2017 Ferrari F12 70th Anniversary 228828 Gooding Pebble Beach $450,000 $550,000 $456,000 Mid
S180 2017 Ferrari F12 70th Anniversary 228803 Mecum Monterey $365,000 $435,000 $440,000 1%
271 2017 Ferrari F12tdf 223687 RM Monterey $850,000 $950,000 $962,000 1%
191 2018 Ferrari 488 Challenge ZFF87EXX000227921 Bonhams Quail $225,000 $250,000 $201,600 -10%
S651 2018 Ferrari 488GTB Russo & Steele Monterey $275,000 $375,000 $253,000 -8%
370 2018 Ferrari 488GTB 70th Anniversary 232129 RM Monterey $375,000 $450,000 $428,500 Mid
169 2018 Ferrari GTC4 Lusso 70th Anniversary 233793 Gooding Pebble Beach $375,000 $425,000 $417,500 Mid

Full coverage of every lot and a review of all auctions will be available free at www.autoauctionsmonthly.com in approx. a weeks time.

Cheers
Timothy

 

The 330 GTC #09333 at Bonhams was estimated US$ 550'000 to US$ 650'000.
The 340 America Coupé Vignale #0132 A at Bonhams was estimated US$ 4 M to US$ 5 M.

Marcel Massini

 

Exactly which planet are you referring to as being "civilised"? I'd like to visit such place sometime.

 

Wondering if anyone has any input on the Gooding lot# 59, the 1956 Boano, which sold at mid estimate. To me the car seemed rough, just the way I like them, and hopefully can afford them. Back in 2012, I was house hunting for my retirement roost, and personal shop. I was getting depressed as the prices were escalating just out of me reach upon every offer I made. In the meantime, the Boano was haunting me with the same ordeal, but just slightly less than the house price. I should have bought a Boano instead of the house!
Anyway, just looking for some input on this one, or pehaps any other "projects" that may be out there.
Boanoless, RF

 

Seems an optimistic estimate for a car with a restamped motor.