FERRARI 288 GTO

are you Guys (Joe, Marcel and Jeff) saying that only a customer who buys a multimillion dollar car looks at the resale value and considers things that we - poor guys that only buy cars that worth some hundreds thousands dollars - don't look at or don't care about? Are you saying that I'm so idiot that I never considered those factors when I purchased fifteen vintage cars, means eleven Ferrari, a Lamborghini and three Porsche?

Doesn't a bad VIN number affect the car value for a 308 or a BB or a F430 Scuderia or a Lamborghini Countach or a Porsche 3.2 Speedster too?

Reading your posts it looks like the owner of that 288 GTO had better burning it as it doesn't worth anything!

Ciao

 

Alberto,

I'll play "devil's advoate" and say yes there are different nuances (and expectations) between the various tiers of collectors and purchasors.
We're all free to buy or pass on a car if it does not fit our criteria, and no one is better or worse than the other.

 

I wrote that someone paying millions for a car will always consider resale value. In no way does this imply that those paying thousands do not consider resale value.

All concerns ... including resale value ... simply scale-up, in proportion to the price of the car. A modified VIN on a Ferrari will hurt the value, in absolute dollars, more than a modified VIN on a Honda ... even though both values are diminished.

Finally, your last sentence makes no sense at all.

 

So, would't be better talking about how much everyone here think the price reduction for that 288 GTO should be, comparing to another without that problem? 10%, 20%, 30%, or more?

I'm really interested to know that, but I read only posts talking "The VIN is much important for a multimillion dollars car": we all agree about that, of course, but I didn't read how much it can affect price yet. Maybe I missed it? If that happened, I apologize, it woudl be my fault.

My opinon is that on a 100 k car it can cut 10% of the value. And the same on 1 M F40. My Idea is 10-15% for this 288, no more. Means 300 k USD.

How much does it cut the value? 10%? 20%?

I will appreciate every answer. I already agree that the VIN is important: I would like to talk about figures. And I promise I won't criticize anyone if he says 50%, I'm just curious to hear what you think about that. Very curious.

Thank you all.

ciao

 

Someone doesn't buy a Ferrari 288 GTO based on performance, or reliability ... in these categories, a 288 GTO will easily be beaten by a new $100K Corvette.

Instead, purchase decisions of vintage Ferrari's are based on: prestige, exclusivity, investment value, etc etc ... more like fine works of art, than automobiles. As such, the market value of vintage Ferrari's will fluctuate MUCH more significantly (in absolute dollars, of course, but also as a percentage) ... due to blemishes, modifications, or "stories" ... than that of more "mundane" automobiles.

Consider the extreme case: compare the highest-mileage, most-used 288 GTO to the lowest-mileage, most perfect example in existence. The market values will easily be 3x apart, if not more! Now do the same exercise for a 1994 Honda Civic ...

 

I think everyone's agreeing on the same point, just looking at from a different angle.

"The VIN is much important for a multimillion dollars car" precisely because of the values involved - whatever the prescribed discount is (which will vary from buyer to buyer), the stakes are much larger on a "multimillion dollars car" than a $100k or $200k car, so a buyer needs to be extra cautious when evaluating a multimillion dollar purchase that may have some questions regarding provenance.

 

I would happily own any of them! and agree a no stories car will always be more valuable/desirable etc. However there is always a market for a stories car as well. The VIN on the Japanese car has not been altered in order to hide its originality (which is typically the case), the number can clearly be seen underneath the xxx and is untouched on the steering shroud. Its not really a stories car like a salvage title or a previous ringer. Sure if the current owner is seeking current market price they will struggle outside of its original Japanese market but to talk the car down as has been done on here, as if its now effectively worthless is not fair to the car or the owner.

 

Don't know that anyone said such a car is "worthless" ... ??

Personally, I wouldn't buy a 288 GTO (or any Ferrari, for that matter) with the VIN over-stamped with xxxx's ... at any discount to typical/average market prices (within reason). No matter what my own opinion of the car may be, i would be too unsure about it's value when i'm interested in selling.

Having said all of this, a few internet opinions won't dramatically impact market value. Myself and a few others haven't "hurt" the current owner. The car in question will be valued at whatever the market says ... lots of buyers, with several cars always available to buy.

 

In general, yes, the more valuable the investment, the more particular the buyer becomes, and the more the car's provenance is scrutinized, makes perfect sense.

I'll leave you to do that math, meanwhile although everyone is entitled to an opinion, let's bear in mind that not everyone has a working understanding of GTO values across the range of miles, condition and provenance!

 

If I remember well, this car reached a high bid of Usd 2,350,000. It is a fairly decent amount of money but clearly not in line with the actual average value for these cars. This answers most of the questions raised in this thread !

 

Thank you very much, Iaques: you are very kind, as always.

So 55237, if what you wrote is confimed, XXXXX deleted 55237 reached a bid of 2,350 M (odometer: 13800km, 9 k miles more or less). It means more or less 2,5 M, if we include buyer's fee. Not bad at all, for a XXXXX deleted 55237 VIN number.
I found just those two 288 GTO auctioned this year: one at the same value of the bid of this "very damaged" VIN car 55237 and one 900 k more, but it had less than 2,900 miles from new, so very low mileage car (VIN 56761).

-----------------
Lot 052
Scottsdale 2019
1985 Ferrari 288 GTO 12 k miles car
Estimate: $2,500,000 - $3,000,000
SOLD $2,507,500
Chassis: ZFFPA16B000055713
-------------------------------

1985 Ferrari 288 GTO 2900 miles
Sold For $3,360,000
Inclusive of applicable buyer's fee.
RM | Sotheby's - ARIZONA 17 - 18 JANUARY 2019
Chassis No. ZFFPA16B000056761


Please note that the Estimate for XXXXX 55237 was $2,550,000 - $2,800,000, very close to Estimate: $2,500,000 - $3,000,000 for the 55713 car.

https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results/quick/Ferrari/288_GTO?unsold=1

Looking at the acutions result above, I would say the XXXXX VIN 55237 for buyers with money on the table, has the same value than a full visible 55713 VIN car or just some percentage points less. No drama, not unsoldable at all.

Any opinion is welcome.

ciao

 

inline with pricing £1,999,950 fx rate @ 1.2294 = $2,458.738 - and that's the opening offer, which no one ever pays
http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_Ferrari-288-GTO_3604.htm

 

This one from Joe Macari has 42000km, it obviously has an impact on the value.

This is considered as a quite high mileage for many buyers which is crazy if we consider that we are talking about a car that is 35 years old! But that’s the way it is!

Problem with very low mileage cars is that one does not dare to use them as any added miles make the value drop dramatically!

I am very happy to have a F40 with 50000km : I can drive it as much as I can/want!!

 

By the way, it’s interesting to see that mileage is not that important for cars from the 60’s.

Hard to believe now but Perhaps in 30 years no one will even look at the odometer in a 288 GTO...

 

I think as they are over 30 years old mileage is already slowly becoming less important, the shift of focus is to condition & provenance.

Good analysis, but nobody has said 55237 is "unsoldable" at all, in fact, the bid is fair enough and makes sense if the buyer has a view to shipping to Maranello to correct the tampering of the car's ID.

 

57701 yesterday:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It actually has the equivalent of 42,000 MILES (about 69,000km).

 

Ferrari Classiche is there exactly to solve such problems and always welcome new customers: they have the database of each car ever produced and can solve whatever problem you have on a car that has the correct ownership documents. It's not difficult at all.

Yesterday, Ferrari Classiche zone at Universo Ferrari event, Fiorano, Italy.

ciao​

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I hesitated when I mentioned this as the description of the car isn’t very clear on that point . We need a picture of the odometer (always in km/h in a 288 as far as I know)!

 

À last picture from behind, couldn’t resist... Image Unavailable, Please Login


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

 

Here's a pics from when I had this car (#53301) in late-2017.

Back when it was Federalized as per U.S. requirements, the speedometer was re-faced to MPH, the the plastic gears in the odometer were not modified to click in kilometers. Therefore, the speed shows in km/h, but the distance travelled is still measured in kms.

Very few U.S. Federalization shops back in the day went to the trouble to source UK-spec OEM mph speedometers. Instead, they just typically re-faced the existing km/h speedos, and simply left the odometers alone, etc.

 

#3445 GT after its Monaco Concours appearance this past summer.

 

This morning.

Marcel Massini

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

GTO meeting... Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

My second paragraph should've instead read as:

"Back when it was Federalized as per U.S. requirements, the speedometer was re-faced to MPH, but the plastic gears in the odometer were NOT modified to click in kilometers. Therefore, the speed shows in MPH, but the distance travelled is still measured in kms.