I think I just found clarity on the SF90, it appears its powertrain is a "field test" for the Purosangue: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ferraris-2022-rapid-luxury-suv-detailed-technical-boss interesting excerpt: The new supercar (SF90), Ferrari’s first regular series-production hybrid, mixes a 4.0-litre V8 with three electric motors, one at the rear between the engine and gearbox and two at the front to give all-wheel drive. A version of that system is set to feature in the Purosangue, yet it’s more likely to be mated to a new turbocharged V6 Ferrari has in development. A range-topping V12 version is also considered likely, as Ferrari remains committed to the development of V12 engines. Now that would then "make sense" (to me) as to why the YASA electric motors top out at 130mph, particularly so if the Purosangue is a taller vehicle as are many SUVs. Use in the SF90 is a field test of the YASA product to ensure its long term function.
Would be amazing but will never happen. Can you iMagine the engineering that would have to go in to do that? And then how do they get around the emission requirements in 2022?
It doesn’t seem like a stretch to me. An extra 0.1L if displacement with a tune that considers the lack of hybrid augmentation. The 4.0 in the SF90 already has particulate filters so emissions shouldn’t be a problem. I also doubt the cooling system would require much re-engineering.
It would still be a change and would they do it for what? 500 cars? I don’t see it happening but time will tell.
My take is that if there is an F8 VS, it will have a de-hybridized 4.0. One thing to consider is that McLaren will have already been in production with their 750LT (765?) due next year. The F8 VS would therefore be revealed during or after LT production ends. The market would perceive the VS as a ‘newer’ car and expect performance to meet or exceed the LT’s, which is obviously a tall order and possibly beyond the limits of Ferrari’s near decade old chassis?
If they make an F8 VS, one would expect the sales volume to be about on par with Pista. Who knows, they could do it if they want to.
Ferrari has shown they don’t care what mclaren does. If they did, they would not have released an F8 but a more powerful hybrid version- aka little brother instead. They have shown they don’t care about mclaren because they would have put the output of F8 higher than the 720- they didn’t.
When would this happen? Emission requirements kick in 2022- 2 years away- they will have sf90 and little brother. F8 is a supposed 2 year run. How do they squeeze in 2000-2500 F8vs? I mean when? That means vs starts delivery in the summer/fall of 2020 when the F8s and F8 Spiders have just started to hit?? I find this improbable.
If ferrari really cared about the 720, they wouldn’t have used a 12 year old chassis and done a facelift and upped the horsepower a bit. They would have come out with a completely new car.
Yes, in a perfect world where cars can be developed and tooled within a year or two, but that’s far from reality. As well, there was less clarity on future regulations which may have contributed to the timing of when they could confidently freeze the design of LB.
They have known about the 720 probably since 2016. They could have started designing a replacement and let the 488 Have one more year and released a brand new model to go head to head against Mclaren. They don’t care and it’s by design. They don’t want to give mclaren the satisfaction of knowing that ferrari is directly competing with them. They did none of that. They changed the front and back end of the 488, added a bit of hp and called it a day. Ferrari is on its own development path and they don’t care about their competitors.
Us non-insiders are all just theorizing and trying to connect the dots as to what drove their past product decisions and what will happen in the future. One thing is for certain, however - all OEMs care about their competitors. Exactly how and to what degree competition influences their strategies is open for debate.
I have no dog in this fight. I just sold my 488. Have a Pista invoking. Own a 720 and am planning on purchasing a 765LT. I’m brand agnostic and not a fan boy of any one brand. Just using logic to arrive at my comments. Who knows, I may be totally off but what may or may not happen in the future doesn’t weigh much into what I buy now.
The front motors disengage above 130 mph because they run out of RPM, since they have no gearbox; they reconnect once the speed drops below that limit. The rear motor is connected to the gearbox, thus the only limiting factor is the state of charge of the battery pack. Unless you use up all the available energy (in Quali Mode), the system keeps recharging the batteries, through engine harvesting and braking (MGU-K). There was this table with the various powertrain modes and their corresponding power, but I can't seem to be able to find it now. If I recall correctly the front motors were, like, 70 CV each. The dront motors would require a two speed gearbox (just as the all elextric Taycan has), which adds weight and complexity. I guess that on balance Ferrari decided that extra shove of the front motors above 130 mph is not worth the penalty, but this is just my hypothesis. There are many powertrain modes; one needs not run it in Quali Mode all the time. Even on Performance Mode it will be significant quicker than a Pista and will be able to keep the battery charged. "eDrive: the internal combustion engine remains off and traction is entrusted entirely to the electric front axle. Starting with a fully charged battery, the car can cover up to 25 km in this mode. This mode is ideal for city centre driving or any other situation in which the driver wishes to eliminate the sound of the Ferrari V8. Hybrid: this is the default setting when the car is turned on, in which the power flows are managed to optimise the overall efficiency of the system. The control logic autonomously decides whether to keep the internal combustion engine running or turn it off. If it is on, the internal combustion engine can run at maximum power thus guaranteeing powerful performance whenever the driver requires. Performance: unlike ‘Hybrid’, this mode keeps the ICE running because the priority is more on charging the battery than on efficiency. This guarantees that power is instantly and fully available when required. This mode is best suited to situations in which driving pleasure and fun behind the wheel are the main focus. Qualify: this mode allows the system to achieve maximum power output by allowing the electric motors to work at their maximum potential (162kW). The control logic prioritises performance over battery charging."
100% absolutely Once the EU 2020 regulations (which were in effect starting Sept 2018 for major car companies, Ferrari received derogation lasting until 12/31/19 to due SVM status, small volume manufacturer) became apparent in early 2017 Ferrari decided to maximize its investment in the 488 and 488 Pista. Normally the 488 line would exist for 5 model years (2016 - 2020) but 2020 became impossible without new engine design for GPF, so rather than make a large investment to extend 488 for one more model year, the plan changed: SO the Pista was launched a year earlier than historically you would expect and 488 product line is set for end-of-series so production continues into 2020 without requiring compliance with EU 2020 regulations. This is why Pista production is currently occurring at a very fast pace, to get as many made as possible to earn the right to produce 10% of that number into calendar year 2020 and not require compliance with 2020 regulations. SO no GPF for Pista. The F8 (i.e. 488 replacement) was announced a year ahead of schedule, will be built with full compliance EU 2020 regulations. Will have GPF. New problem popped up earlier this year, EU 2022 regulations will require redesign of chassis of all existing cars for 2022 compliance (new windshield, seat belts, pole side impact), so, expect all existing models at that time to be discontinued / end-of-series and same allowance (which is about 10% of previous year production, depending on specific country in EU), yes, including SF90. For any existing models to continue production into 2022 is possible but will be noticeable changes so probably will be all new, perhaps slightly revamped, models at that time. For this reason the F8 should be a short term model (2 years production) and thus may not have time for a VS model but might, but, then you have the problem of price points, an F8 VS would be priced the same as a base SF90, so, I do not expect an F8 VS because for the same money the customer could have an SF90 with more power, etc. So, McLaren was not influential in any way whatsoever...
I agree on both sides of this discussion, both have merit. This whole VS thing is still yes/no but if ITS A YES it will be the last car to be ICE 100% and Ferrari could easily market it as the Finale. My take F8GTO. All ready bought the number plates, worth a gamble
Or the F8 is the last ICE car Or the Pista is the last ICE car without GPF Or the Speciale is the last NA ICE car Or the 488 is the first turbo v8 from Ferrari Or the 458 is the last NA v8 that’s not a track version. I say buy one of each and just store them.
Great post @ JTSE30, however are you saying Ferrari didn’t anticipate the 2022 regulations into the SF90 design?
Makes no sense that they would have to replace every existing model with totally new design in 2 years. Especially since some models will have only one year production time. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I do see what your saying. Im just looking at it as the last model with ZERO electric. If I was Ferrari I would go out with a band. F8 fully carbon bits, Livery paint, SF90 engine ( no electric ) 90 cars celebrating 90 years and close the chapter
Thank you, I presume SF90 design, largely based on the 488 platform, was initiated and locked in well before revised EU 2022 Pole Side Impact resolution was issued. This from March 2017: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/ferrari/news-and-spy-photos-of-2019s-new-ferrari-588-modificato/ and more about a year later: At that time, the 2015 regulation was enforce: https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/side-pole/ Now, changes for 2022 from May 2017: (see page 10): https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017-05-EP-short-briefing-gsr-pp.pdf excerpt: At present, vehicles generally perform well in the Euro NCAP pole test, which is similar to the UNECE R135 specification. ETSC would support such a test becoming mandatory and supports the EC proposal for an additional requirement that an assessment of the window curtain airbag coverage is added.13 • ETSC recommends adding the pole impact crash test UNECE R135, with an airbag coverage requirement by 2020 for new types and by 2022 for all new vehicles. above explains why the rush to introduce new models now, before 2020 (I cannot locate any derogations Ferrari has regarding these requirements, they may have but maybe not, if not, they need to introduce new models now to grace their compliance with this regulation until 2022) by the way, is apparently from Sept 1 2020 (see "Now resolved" link below, search on "pole") And from May 2018 (pole only mentioned once without further clarification) https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2018/wp29grsp/GRSP-63-31e.pdf Now resolved: https://www.utacceram.com/images/utac/actus/Regulations_Review-General_and_Pedestrian_Safety.pdf more indepth here: https://globalautoregs.com/rules/201-pole-side-impact-protection Now, do I know if Ferrari considered all this possibilities and implemented all? No, I do not know, but I strongly doubt they developed a car to comply with standards that were not yet fully voted upon. From the press, it appears March 27 2019 was when it became clear (the 2022 changes): https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-1793_en.htm full review: https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/34588
At this time, my expectations: 812 family ends MY2021 F8 family ends MY2021 Lusso family ends MY2021 SF90 family ends MY2021 [engine lives on in Purosangue] (consider the car's name, SF90, that name is not destined for a long life as the name will be dated each year into its production, Scuderia Ferrari 90th anniversary) Portofino family ends MY2021 I think this is why '15 new models by 2022' because of big changes, I believe each of the above will have a replacement announced before spring 2021 (Lusso will be replaced by Purosangue, so, that one is already expected)
