There aren’t enough laughing emojis to go with this response, so I’ll just go with one [emoji23] I tried to tell @noone1 - he brought a knife to a gunfight! What the hell - here’s another [emoji23]
WTF are you talking about? I also showed you a silver car with 9K miles that sold for the same price as a red one with 600 miles! Are you blind? And where did I ever say anything about an 82 mile TDF or a 250 mile CGT? I said 5K miles vs 20K miles. So yes, you must be blind.
Here is the initial post. Jesus Christ. "I doubt there are any 20k mile tdfs, let alone for sale. They'd sell instantly if there were since they are sought after by long term holders and the discount for 20k miles would be pretty significant so early on. 20k miles wont affect price much 10 years from now, but it will currently." Can the point be any clearer? Things I said: long term holders" and "the discount for 20K miles would be pretty significant early on" and "But the premium for low miles will be much much less as a percentage of value." I did not say museum collectors. I did not say deliver mile cars in a protective bubble. I did not say in overall dollars. Jesus Christ, what is so hard to comprehend about this? It's not that hard. Take a 20K mile TDF today for whatever you think it's worth (Unotaz says probably MSRP) and compare that to the price of a low mileage car around $1M. Now ask yourself if the 20K car is going to be worth that same percentage difference after a quite a while. Yes or no? It's not that hard to comprehend.
It's hard to have a meaningful conversation about values and the market with someone that is either so far out of their depth that they don't realize, or chose to conveniently ignore the significant premiums paid for specific color combos while conflating the Euro and US market values. Pro Tip: The market prices in the US and Euro are different and not simply a matter of converting currencies. Buyers of these cars do not simply shop world-wide. Typically, rare colors are valued more highly than others, sometimes significantly. To contextualize this for anyone else that cares (anyone? anyone? Bueller?) - Noone1 wants to compare a 9k mile Enzo in Silver, in the US with a 600 mile Red Euro car, while disregarding the fact that the two prices he's using to argue his point are in different currencies... Yes. It could be clearer. Much clearer. Try to stick to a single narrative and your point might be more clear. It will likely still be wrong, but at least we'll be able to understand it. By your own examples, as well as the ones I provided, there is a clear indication that for "long term holders" "the premium for low miles" is - at a minimum - maintained "as a percentage of value". Yes.
Fellas, I've spoken to ttforcefed real-time, over the phone, regarding a few car-related matters (and even life-related matters). He's the real deal. Every bit of his experience in the car world (and otherwise) is as real as it gets. noone1, with all due respect, you should have taken this as an opportunity to learn from a bonafide master/guru (think: The Ant and the Grasshopper), rather than attempting to go toe-to-toe with him on a subject in which you are obviously entirely deficit as a result of your complete inexperience (in cars, life, and perhaps otherwise). I know it's hard for guys of your Millenial generation to show respect and humility, but you'd be well-served to at least try.
appreciate the comments/sentiment. i really dont care about the toe to toe, like i said i've won many times over and not because i've been able to enjoy an amazing hobby. BUT, i spent some time looking at noone's historical posts and he gives a decent amount of advice (with conviction) on which X cars to buy at Y price. To me that's dangerous coming from a guy who has no practical seat time. i feel like there shld be a check mark near members boxes that identifies if they actually own a ferrari. someone looks at noone and sees 4300 posts over 19 years and they think ok this guy has some real experience - but taking advice from him could be compromising. its shocking to me how people voice opinions on cars they've A) never bought and worse, B) have probably never driven!
The difference is that I'm not emotionally attached to this stuff and so I can say things like "weight doesn't matter in the real world" and actually be honest about it. The most raved about car in recent Ferrari history, the TDF, weighs how much? I guess I'll be eating crow when the SF90 gets bashed in reviews for being too heavy and for being slower than the Pista.. unless it doesn't and it's not.
First of all, never believe in Ferrari's claim on weights. It's complete bogus. The only two car companies that I believe the claims on weight are Porsche and Mclaren. Second, I don't think the SF90 will be slower than the Pista if it's on the same tire. The performance difference won't be even close. All wheel drive and hybrid power, it will be too much for the Pista to handle. Third, the TDF is a porker no doubt but it drives beautifully with a "I want to kill you" attitude. Fourth, I would argue that while weight is an important factor in real world performance, what's more important is how you put that power onto the road. Which do you think will be faster on the canyons in the real world? A 991 Turbo S (heavier) or a 488 Pista (lighter)? How about a 918 Spyder (heavier) vs. LaFerrari (lighter)? In both cases, the heavier car wins in the real world simply down to traction.
Oh, I see you refer to the numerous posts where he routinely argues with the owners of cars he does not own about them? Those posts? Yeah, it's been a head scratcher to me as well.
Ownership is never a litmus test to welcome participation. I've learned a lot from non-owners so it's cool. It's just the posts come with a know-it-all feel to them with a sprinkle of the 'outside' the restaurant analogy you gave in the past. It leaves a bad taste, I mean, somebody posts a picture of their Enzo and his comment is it looks like $h't (his actual words not mine) Not a good way to win friends.
Rick also never pulled 'rank' to non-owners or those with humble collections. Before I was a mod and owned 'just a Mondial' he is gracious and gave me great advice.
i welcome any and all who share this passion. when it comes to giving advice on values/costs to maintain etc i think that's best left to people who have had many at bats. the best part of owning my cars is taking kids and teenagers for rides or letting people in their 50s and 60s drive one because they know if not for that they will probably die without ever driving one. None of this is about status or hierarchy - among my close group of local car buddies i'm the lightweight...this weekend i met up with one of them who has spent more in the past 6 months on 4 cars that i probably will never be able to buy. I listened closely to what he saw in the market on those 4 cars. there is always someone richer, smarter, or with more experience....
@Prancing 12 I hear you brother, in fact at one point, I seriously thought he was 'connected' because his assertions in the past were so bold with a conviction of absolute truth, I paused and reanalyzed my own views! He's alienated many others here as the proverbial armchair critic, the MO being to 'one up' owners with his 'expert' knowledge Sadly, we've seen this situation many times before here: A couple familiar users comes to mind.
I love taking people for rides. When I dropped my friend off at his house, 3 teens and their Mom were riding bikes and stopped. The Mom said the boys love my car. I then took each of the boys for a ride in my 430 spider. I am sure they will never forget it. I still remember in 1965 my Dad's friend taking me for a 15 mile ride in his 64 289 Cobra. I also enjoy taking someone the fastest they have ever gone in a car Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
