575M HGTC, RHD sold for £72k

Apologies if this has been raised already but how on earth did someone let a 575M HGTC RHD with 24,000 miles on it sell for £72k?! https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25454/lot/227/

Has the market completely collapsed? Surely this is a £120k car?!

 

not too far off from this one but this one has more miles
https://www.ferrariofatlanta.com/used/Ferrari/2002-Ferrari-575M-d9da5fc10a0e0adf1c4ee09c85f3df3c.htm
this one prob wont go fo ask:
https://www.*******************/2005-ferrari-575m-maranello-c-321.htm

 

That was a good buy. HGTC, Red/nero, nice registration, serviced and the beautiful wheels.

 

i used to prefer 575 to 550 and i think ive officially switched!

 

Dream on !

It feels like a realistic price for now but a better indication may come from Saturday's sale (about which I think there already is some discussion here)


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mkt has been soft on them for some time

even 550s are coming back in

 

Why should it sell for more? 15 year old car with a crappy F1 transmission that gets "grabby" after 12k miles.. meh. At least the 550 has a proper transmission.

 

Merlin is interesting : they have those testarossa that are lot special advertised at 200k for
Years that will never sell... not sure why they allow consignment with crazy proces( foot traffic?


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cause (from what i am told) they own their inventory and are backed by a guy with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

so they can sit and wait ...........

 

Interest is fading in older cars across the board. Our generation may be the last to really appreciate these machines.

Was at a car show a couple weeks go. Field packed with the latest and greatest. A Daytona pulls in, and in behined it a 328 GTB. Hardly a glance. Sad..

 

Sometimes I see that, but I dunno. There's so much latest and greatest out there, it's distracting, especially at a car show. My 86 911 that I've had for years has never gotten as much love as recently when I'm out with it - it's kind of weird sometimes - and the 355 gets a lot of attention for sure (one reason I bought it in black was to minimize that, don't know how well that worked out). Not sure how my anectodal experiences translate into people stepping up to purchase and maintain these cars as the years go on, but people do dig seeing them "in the wild" it seems, at least around here.

575M in Blue Pozzi over Cuoio, reasonable miles and with a stick for under $100K...dang that's nice.

 

Growing up in an era of higher quality cars, nobody is going to set the points or deal with the maintenance of an older car. They're just old.

It's like I've said.. Ferrari GT's aren't proverbial sports cars. Nobody knows or cares what they are in an era of Lamborghini and McLaren flamboyance. Per Instagram posts, every young man under the age of 40 wants a Lamborghini.

 

I don't think F1 575M's are particularly special cars, HGTC or not. I'd rather have a 550 because they're all manuals.

 

George is, in my very humble opinion, quite right.

Most people prefer the manual 550 to the 575: in terms of styling and mechanical improvements, we’re splitting hairs in what is little more than a nice marketing manoeuvre, with most prospective buyers considering that the improvements are not worth the premium.

I think the market will continue to confirm the following trend in terms of value (from the most valuable to the least valuable):

1) Manual 575
2) 550
3) 575 F1

Goes to show that not always the newer, improved car is the most desirable over time. I think we’ll see this at least twice in the V8 camp given enough time, with the 355 with respect to the 360, and the 458 compared to the 488.

Nevertheless, I must say at this point I’m dumbstruck by 550 and 575 values, namely the latter. They’re both nowhere near the market value I thought they’d reach by now, and I’m somewhat puzzled when I try to analyze possible causes.

Most people in my age range (35-45) are put off by old cars, that’s true in general. Mainly because some cars (pre-355 or pre-456, pre-550) are deemed insufferably not driver friendly: no comfort, no amenities, lots of glitches, have to be handled with the utmost care, are a hustle to service, don’t have the basic electronic help to ensure you can explore the car to the limit like ABS or ESP, etc.

I know that for some, the reasons above are exactly why you prefer these cars over the modern ones. My generation in general has little to no patience to cars without electronic refinement and comfort. I owned a Mondial. Loved that car through and through. Lets face it, a vintage car is great in all respects for a nostalgic person such as myself, but comfort is next to zero. In the end, drove it less than 2.000km over 4 years. Had no patience for that heavy, feel-less steering, those ridiculously inadequate brakes, that asthmatic air conditioning blower, the hassle of having to remove a wheel, nuts, bolts and panels just to change a battery, etc, etc. Whenever I wanted to go for a ride and have fun, I picked up my 458 and left the Mondial behind.

That may account for part of it, but not all. In my book, both the 550 and the 575 despite qualifying as old, they’re both rewarding and with an at least acceptable level of comfort and confidence behind the wheel even by modern standards, and so I go back to square one: I thought it would be next to impossible to find any of these cars below the psychological barrier of 100.000.

Furthermore, I think the F1 technology is aging quite badly. Somewhat of a middle child syndrome: compared to a manual, the F1 is no match in terms of fun, magic and x-factor. Compared to a modern double clutch gearbox, all F1 seem they’re broken or seriously malfunctioning. Yes, that bad. Given an alternative, the F1s just sit there at the dealer whereas manual 355s, Modenas, 550s and the newer Californias, 458s and 488s with nice specs just fly off the dealership showroom.

Anyway, this is a brainstorming post of sorts, thinking out loud. Not claiming to have all the facts, quite de opposite: eager to continue this very interesting debate and learn your different points of view.

Kindest regards,

Nuno.

 

nuno its pretty scarry, but i never disagree with any of ur posts. kind of weird. you are much more diplomatic than me, but i literally agree with everything you write.

 

Thank you, it means a great deal to me, namely when it comes from someone as knowledgeable, esteemed and experienced as you. I always enjoy and learn from your posts, they’re always a pleasure to read!

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Lots of interesting views here. I have a manual 575 and love it. But I take my (manual) 430 Spider out more.

Are values low because the young gen just wants to post selfies in front of Lambos? I mean, they do for sure, but values were this low five years ago, and people tell me 15 years ago you could buy 60s and 70s V12 Ferraris for a fraction of what they cost now. So I’m not sure we can yet blame the Instagram generation for the post 2016 dip in prices. They are still much higher across the board than pre Instagram, pre Greta Thunberg.

Make of that what you will.

As to 550s and 575s, I agree with Curt that they do not look like most people’s idea of a Ferrari. In fact I think they look pretty bland, and I own one and owned two until a tree fell on one of them earlier this year. But they are V12 manual Ferraris of a classic, louche type, and connoisseurs’ cars to drive. There are no other Ferraris like them, since the 275. I don’t know if that makes them more or less valuable. 275s go for a lot more than any flashy modern Instagram Lambo, though.

I also generally agree with Nuno, although I would gently disagree about the differences between the 550 and 575. They are quite significant, and add up to quite a lot. Here are two articles which describe them, one by Evo and one (with apologies) by me, for anyone interested.

https://www.lux-mag.com/best-modern-classic-ferrari/

https://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/599/14111/ferrari-599-gtb-vs-275-gtb-daytona-550-maranello-and-575m

 

I didn’t know that, Darius. I’m sorry for your loss.

A manual 575 is a unicorn in my book. You may remember I owned a 575 F1 some time ago, and that’s when I first read your excellent article, that gave me great pleasure reading it again, as it did the first time.

I have very mixed feelings about selling it. I miss my grand tourer italian 12 cylinder. It was palpably more comfortable and evolved in general than the 550 (never owned one, but rode on a friend’s some times).

I wish the 575 in terms of design was bolder and more differenciated from the 550. I think that that design proximity compliments the 550 in terms of value, and hurts the 575 a bit. I also wish there was a more significant horsepower and performance difference between the two.

I understand and agree that upon thinking Ferrari, most people think about a full blown supersports car and not a GT, but in terms of design I think both the 550 and the 575 aren’t just beautiful: they’re gorgeous. The modern day Daytonas.

I still feel both cars have all it takes to appreciate slowly but solidly in the future, and the more I think of it, the more baffled I am as to why they haven’t yet.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

I dont know that I agree with this statement (though not trying to be disrespectful). I have a 612 and a 65 Vette.

The Vette gets hands down more interest whenever I take it out. People are constantly driving by and give thumbs up. Whenever I stop anywhere someone always comes over to talk about it. I have never taken it out without getting some recognition from somebody and it runs the gamut from kids on bicycles to the younger generation in their souped up Acuras to older guys (and ladies) remembering “back in the day”. The strangest one yet was yesterday I was droving up to LA and a motorcyclist was zooming up the carpool lane while I was in the slower lane doing 20 MPH and he slowed down blocking the car pool lane to talk to me about my car.

On the other hand my 612 does elicit some smiles but not nearly the attention. (If it wasn’t red I doubt that anyone would notice at all.)

So my theory is that people will always love old cars but it will be more likely the cars that they know. Everybody knows what a 65 Vette is. A 2007 612. Not so much.

 

The plot thickens....Sothebys sold a Nero / Cuoio LHD, no HGTC with similar mileage for 120k euros on the weekend. . . . That HGTC at Bonhams was an absolute steal if the Sothebys car is even half reflective of where the market is at.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pg19/the-s%C3%A1ragga-collection/lots/r0143-2002-ferrari-575m-maranello/775383

 

On this weekend I just swapped out the big brake kit from my dads Grigio Titano 550 to my silver rocket 550 in order to fit the 18” OEM 575 rims on it. (Bought from Henryr). As I followed him home I was again totally breathing pure red mist. Others in his wake were equally impressed. If I didn’t have 550, I would be horribly in lust. I like all things Ferrari and many of my buds have the latest and greatest but no Ferrari hit me like the 550 and 355.
Unless there is a complete shift to electric I think the values will come back and surpass current value.
If electric conversion is a good viable option, I see potential new value in retaining old tin that was made when beauty was all that mattered.
I feel the same way about my pro touring 60s chevelle, “Blue Mamba”

 

Any Corvette from 67 down will draw huge attention. That is a given. People love the things to look at and admire. However, actually owning such a beast is a completely different thing. The fantasy is much better then the reality.

 

Unless there is a C6 or newer chassis underneath it with quality finishes to match. Then you have it all.

 

Sorry Tom, again, I respectfully don't agree. For me as the owner of 65 Vette, the fantasy and the reality are about the same. Absolutely awesome car to own and I drive both it and my 612 to work on a regular basis. The Vette is 55 years old and it still draws a crowd, is extremely easy to wrench, costs much less than a Ferrari to maintain, all parts are readily available and it continues to appreciate in value. Driving it year round with the top down in sunny Southern California and listening to the rumble of the engine with Zeppelin playing Stairway to Heaven is nothing short of an E ticket ride (the child in me cannot resist).

To put this in a local context, we have a cars and coffee every weekend in my neighborhood and it has grown exponentially over the years featuring older American muscle and more well known older Europeans such as TR6s, Healeys, Mercedes, and Porsches (with a few exotics such as a Gullwing, a Daytona, a real Cobra and a Countach occasionally thrown in for good measure). So as an escapee from the Cold North, I get why the hobby does not work as well up there but I don't see overall ownership interest in older cars waning at all down here!

 

god, how long ago way that ?