Teams at odds over post-2024 F1 engine formula

Teams at odds over post-2024 F1 engine formula

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-2025-power-units-debate/4553225/


Formula 1’s stakeholders are debating what direction the sport should take on power units after 2024, with Renault pushing for electrification and Mercedes keen to stick with the current formula.
The existing hybrid V6 regulations, which were introduced in 2014 and which will be tweaked for 2021, are expected to operate until at least 2024 and be replaced in 2025 or 2026.

Renault F1 boss Cyril Abiteboul says that the sport is being in danger of being left behind unless it starts planning for a formula that is more relevant to the future of road cars, and at the same time is cost-effective for the manufacturers.

“If I look the pace at which the world is changing, in my opinion, there is a huge risk that F1 is left behind,” said Abiteboul.

“Look at the Greta Thunbergs of this world, look at electrification. Things that people are saying today that they would not even have considered six months ago – Ferrari talking about a full-electric car.

“So the world is moving at a very fast pace, and we have to be very careful not to be left behind the road car industry. Whatever we think of electrification, it’s not going to go away.

“Basically what that means is I’m trying everything I can and urging everyone to fast track the consideration for a new power unit, what it should be, what it should look like, what it should cost, and stopping spending a crazy amount of money – because we’re spending a crazy amount, all together, all four engine manufacturers – and start spending on what would be relevant for the future.”

Abiteboul believes that in the build-up to a new formula the current engines should be frozen, to cap spending on their development.

“Probably that would mean at some point slowing down the investment in the internal combustion engine, and increasing development towards the electric parts.

"Maybe also consider new sources of energy, like the fuel cell, or things like that, which will probably be the future of F1.

“Right now we are more in the process of structuring a plan with a progressive freeze of the engine, and reduction in the number of specs per year, so we can ramp up to a new power unit in 2026.

“But frankly it’s seven years from now, it seems super far, and I’m thinking not just for myself, I’m thinking for F1 as a community.”

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said that F1 should make more of the efficiency of the current power units, but also acknowledged that there will be changes for the long term.

“From a cost perspective we would be keen, together with the FIA and Liberty, to keep the current formula,” said Wolff.

“It’s a very efficient hybrid power unit and we are just not good enough at transporting that to the world. But it is.

“Nevertheless the world is changing, we have millions of people on the streets protesting or cheering for climate change.

"For us at Daimler sustainability has become more important than just a marketing tool. Sustainability happens.

“We have to ask ourselves the question as PU suppliers, what is the vision for the future Formula 1 engine?

"Bearing in mind the costs, bearing in mind the hybrid component needs to be substantially larger, and this is something we are looking at because obviously it’s not easy without having additional costs related to it.”

Wolff hinted that change could come earlier than currently scheduled: “All of my colleagues from the other suppliers, we are looking at the vision engine for 2025 and how that could look.

"The question is do we need to bring that forward? Because the world is moving faster than in the past, and this is a discussion we need to have.”

 

Just kill it in 2025. What’s the point of giant slot car racers pissing around. No noise, no excitement, no soul. It’s already crap enough.


Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission

 

There's already a fully electric series that no one watches. CA needs to have his head removed from his ass.

 

I’m pretty tired of these tools who insist that F1 be “relevant”. When was the last time somebody said, “I love F1 because it’s so excitingly relevant!” Especially manufacturers who just use the sport, Renault perhaps being the worst offender. They should be the last people to influence the future of the sport. Let them go race FE if that's what excites them.

 

Bring back the V12s!

 

I think it's possible to make everybody happy without any technical revolution and riots at the tracks.

Right now there is a limit in the energy they can recover with braking, I don't know why: that's wasted energy and they already have MGU-Ks to deal with it, so they could make the car more efficient without too much hassle and keep the tree huggers at bay.

Also, having higher revving engines would keep the old farts happy, it seems they don't care what's under the hood as long as it makes noise. Maybe a reduction in energy recovery through the MGU-H would be needed, but the increase in the MGU-K could compensate for that.

 

“Look at the Greta Thunbergs of this world"

Maybe they should look at the fleet of Jumbo jets they use to carry the circus to the world

NTIGAF

 

Exactly...''lets all start listening to autistic 16 year olds that claim to be able to see CO2 instead of actual scientists''. What a load of ****. And yes the Greta Thunbergs of this world spend their down time watching Formula E? Of course not...if FE was the only motorsport around those little socialists would spend the rest of their days trying to ban that, too!

 

Well if they do go ahead with a full Electric F1 they'd have killed the sport single handily. Imagine having paid 9 billion for it

fully!

F1 is not relevant and never should be. Look at the fans...they're leaving in droves because of the manufacturers imposing dumber and dumber formulas under threats of leave...95/100 fans when asked will want V8/10/12s back! 99/100 will leave if F1 goes electric...the sport will be gone. And the drivers, too.

As you say...the manufacturers should make their mind up. If they want to please their accountant divisions they should go to Formula E.

Make the engine rules like they where in the V8 era again but with 3.5 liter V10/12s, make the aero far less complicated and allow for simple tunnels. Don't bother with cost caps as that's impossible to police the way it's set up these days, but simply limit it so they can't spend 100s of millions to gain a significant advantage.

Sure, a few teams would leave (renault, mercedes), but watch traditional teams knock on the door, begging to come in.

 

I agree with Sid, ie bring back the V12s. The whole electrification thing for me is a fraud. We don't have the capacity to produce enough electricity to power all these new vehicles. From memory, market share of electric vehicles in some 10 years time will be about 10% of vehicle production, or about 5 million per annum. Electric vehicles make sense for delivery vans, buses running a closed circuit, and small commuter cars running around cities. Current diesel and petrol engines are very clean. In fact, I heard from some old work colleagues months ago that car companies are still developing diesel engines for use in hybrids (which makes sense - diesel electric locomotives have been in production for 70 years).

And if we look at electricity production, the only real way to have clean production is to use nuclear. And those opposing petrol/diesel engines in vehicles also oppose nuclear energy.

Can't have it both ways.

 

Exactly.

Most eco warrior are simply marxists hiding under the eco banner. We're being ruled by idiots using fear. their end goal is simple: Tax more.

They've been claiming the world only has a few years to go for YEARS
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I need to copy that list and send onto my friends.

 

Yes, I don't quite understand their thinking. Nuclear energy is relatively clean.
Its detractors claim that its main component, uranium, is extracted from the ground.
But uranium is not a fossil fuel; it's a chemical element, a mineral like iron ore, copper and other metals.
Together with renewable energy (wind, hydro, tide, etc ...) nuclear energy is non-polluting .

 

I've heard people complain what do we do with the spent uranium or plutonium. But the US and other countries have been building nuclear ships for decades and what is the government doing with that spent material? And what is France doing (they have a huge number of nuclear plants) with its spent fuel?

 

That's on the exact opposite end of the truth.

 

OK, what is your thinking on nuclear and what are your concerns?

 

8 Advantages and Disadvantages of Nuclear Energy

• High Efficiency Level. One characteristic of nuclear energy is its higher efficiency level over other energy sources such as fossil fuels. ...
• Abundant Supply. ...
• Environment-friendly. ...
• Low Maintenance. ...
• Harmful. ...
• Expensive. ...
• Nuclear Waste Disposal Issues. ...
• Leak Potential.

So, depending if your glass is half empty or half full, you are for or against nuclear power.
But there is no CO2 emission, no particules, no air pollution, no climate effect, etc ...

 

Nuclear waste can be recycled, up to a point, and reused. But it's not cheap.
The residual material, still harmful, has to be stored in containers and put in secure location where it will lose its radioactivity over the years.

 

Nuclear rocks, clean, fast, safe energy for all.... ****ing awesome... screw the bearded enviro brigade, they want to live in the 1500’s, give them a nice empty country to live in, and let them get on with it, while the rest of us continue to enjoy the results of hundreds of years of scientific and social development.

 

I probably won't make myself very popular with my thoughts on the subject but here it goes.
First, i'm not a blind like some world leaders with strange haircuts that don't give a **** about the planet issues, truth is, (you may choose to ignore it if you like) Human grouth and activity is obviously changing the planet, and in many cases, not for the best. Polution, global warmth, species extinction, etc, this is not a joke, it's real, and we are causing it, and this things should be taken seriously and adressed by responsible people, and in many cases by us all. Now, the problem with people discussing these issues is radicalism, what makes me crazy is when i see someone sensible talking about this issues, some ****ing vegan eater tree hughers shows up and ****s it all up, saying we can't drive more cars, we can't eat more meat...and we might as well stop farting cause metane is gonna blow the planet!
I agree that Evs, or hydrogen cars will be the future, they are a lot better for the planet's health, and they should develop and people should be encouraged to use them, what i cannot accept is that a bunch of idiots are trying to force the erradication of ice cars, and do nothing about Planes and boats. I read just the other day that the entire fleet of carnival cruzes produces more co2 than all the cars in europe! ****...and they worry about cars? why don't they make them use electric ships?? Many youngster like green stuff, but ask them if they are willing to drop all the cheap ryanair flights by the thousands, that polute our atmosphere? or toss away they smarphones because of lithium batheries? hell no!
Of course when i hear some world leaders (or should i just say world imbecils) say climate changes are a fairytale, that they don't c are about it, it makes me mad, because i want my children and their children to have a healthy planet in wich they can live, and these sort of people create the Gretas Thunbergs of this world. I personaly admire this girl a lot, she's got "balls" and convictions) to do what she does, and at her age, it's a wonderful thing. She speaks like a radical, that's true, but that's probably because she sees the indiference that people in power and with responsabilities (not to confuse with being responsible) look at this matters.
So stupidity and ignorance on one side is creating radicalism on the other. Oh and Bas, don't confuse autism with Asperger, because while Asperger can be considered by some as something in the spectrum of autism, there is nothing similar between them, trust me, i know.
As for f.1, or sports car in general, it makes no sense to talk about it, this is a sport, and as a sport it should be done in what is the best way for those who race in it and for the fans, the road relevance is jut a poor excuse to force stupid changes. Yes, seb is right, bring back the ****ing v12!..tree hugers are worried about the polution of the f.1 engines? they like f.e? how the **** do they think f.e cars fly from race to race? on electric planes? go eat some mushrooms and grow a brain! The impact of f.1 is zero, so just leave it alone. The farting caused by all the veggies that the morons discussing it eat is far worse!

 

Sid, if instead of all the money some countries spend on weapons and other useless ****, they invested in developing nuclear technology maybe it would be a lot safer by now, and energy and the polution we make to create it would cease to be a problem!

 

I saw a picture of her in the same t shirt here parents were wearing and the three of them are radicals. She's been programed to spew her garbage. And I think most conservatives think more about the enviornment the all the lefties on the planet.

 

It's normal that her parent's had some sort of environment concerns, and it could be because of their influence that she become interested in the cause, on the other hand, people wit asperger syndrom (aspies) tend to focus strongly on one subject, and many times become obcessed by it, and they become very good at it, no matter the subject. They are very inteligent and very articulate, so i wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to her, no parents interference.

 

I don't think environment is a left or right cause, i know green political parties are usualy left wing, but Germany is pushing a lot against diesel, and Merkel is far from being left wing!
People can be left or right, but despite their political convictions, they can have a real interest on environmental issues.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say here. I am for a moderate approach to environmental issue, and I reject radicalism. That's why I don't like the Greta Thunberg cult.

Yes, the impact of F1 and motor racing on the environment is very small. The ICE hasn't said its last word yet.
Having said that, I don't think an atmo V12 is the most efficient engine; it only makes a pleasant noise for some.
A 4-cyl turbo presents more advantages; remember the BMW 1.5L turbo at the back of Piquet's Brabham !!!