812 Market Dynamics

You think they should get credit for parking sensors and anti collision that my X5 had 5 years ago ? Am puzzled.

 

Please read my post again, I am saying that once we move to standardised propulsion (electric) and a Tesla 3 out runs a 911, then the way folks will compete will be on the non driving experiences, hardly a strength for Ferrari. Not that I don’t like driving neat cars, look at my back catalogue !

Porsche interface massively superior in 911 (non truck) and therefore arguably they are further ahead on the “toys” than Ferrari.

Cayenne Coupe is fun actually and we await the Ferrari truck with interest (2021)

 

Those are your words. I just wanted to know if, on the 812, the ADAS, etc. suck (in execution of duty) or if they are actually helpful.

 

Thanks for clarification. However, regardless of your back catalogue, you do seem to be a proponent of vehicles with all the latest gadgets and that's the exception I will completely steer clear of, even in a daily driver (which means I need to hold what is the current DD)

Yes, if the future is similar to Minority Report (movie) then Ferrari will be a brand in name only, they are actually working on that now. See here:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ferrari-looks-to-capitalize-on-brand-name-as-it-promises-faster-growth_3136923.html

 

Can’t see this view of the future personally. Some nannies will proliferate but they can be useful. In the UK we have these average speed limits where you have to drive at a slow pace over a given distance through, for example, road works. Cruise control on my Lusso is pretty useful there. But when I want to go quick, just knock it all off and put my foot down.

I don’t see a world with 100% electric in my lifetime (and actually ever). If it did go that way we would all find another hobby. Certainly a Ferrari competing only on creature comforts is an irrelevance to everyone. Bentley do that better. To accept that this is a picture of the future we are actually discussing whether the sports car world will exist. My bet is that it will. Given current EU legislation, minimum date for 100% EV is 30 years away. And I reckon the next round of legislation is going to take account of the job losses currently happening en masse in Europe. Even if they continued their current pace and ignored the unions there will still be ICE vehicles around in 30 years and probably being sold too.

 

Agreed, and long after that in the USA.

 

UK 812 market now completely disintegrating

There was a period over the past couple of weeks where the drop slowed towards the £300... However only very few cars selling, literally 2-3 cars... Then lower end cars started to do further towards 270/280 mark.... And now this... Fully spec'd car (Retail about with £340) low milage for £269 ask, which is 30k below comparable cars.. This is starting a new round of significant devaluation ...I was expecting this level next summer .... This is 25 pct down for a model that came to UK market a year ago....

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Pretty much the same car, not selling for months, still listed at 299 with another dealer

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So about normal car depreciation in UK now for ferrari. I would contend the 812 is not as aesthetically pleasing as prior F cars hence the depreciation so soon.

 

Normal car is a good reference.... Nothing exclusive, same as a golf GTI....

I wonder if the Roma is impacting things and the increasing rumours that the VS is going to be a significant redesign

 

A-ha. That's it! And I thought it had to do with the engine being soooooo loud! Eh, what do I know?

 

Don't you think part of it is the dire political climate in the UK? I hear this is either the most significant election since WWII OR... ever... A lot of people with assets are apparently feeing- not really thinking about expensive toys. And then the apparent oversupply of the EU markets with 812 to beat the Jan 1 2020 deadline... I'd say this isn't entirely surprising.

 

Big time.

 

If you look at GBP/USD the election/ Brexit risk is pretty much gone at least in people's minds.... It's much more supply driven.... But even then I doubt even 2-3 months ago anybody would have thought we'll be in the 260s in December..... Just remember people were paying a premium on £350k cars 8 months ago....

 

best just get out and drive the bloody thing and stop worrying about it's nominal value - that's my plan at least ! luckily every drive in it cheers me up.

 

Hmmmmm.........so nothing to do with overly priced, overly supplied, overly speculated on and overly variented (is that a word??) in a overly crowded market?

 

Of course.
But the poor design must be a contributor also.

 

It’s funny how much opinions vary. I think the 812 is a masterpiece on every level - exterior design included. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned. Several friends with far more extensive collections agree.

Honestly, I’m not sure that it’s the design. There are far uglier, but more limited, cars throughout automotive history that have appreciated significantly. Since the 458 Italia, is there any regular production sportscar that is holding its value? Even SAs, tdf’s, 599 GTO’s, Pistas, etc, are struggling to find demand at ever-decreasing prices.

Color me blind, but I don’t find this to be a “poor design”.

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I agree although I guess it's subjective. I also think it's a very colour sensitive car, looks better in darker colours in my opinion, like yours, black etc.

 

I have several friends in the UK who are literally "bags packed" - they knew it could be bad, but apparently, the way things work in the UK, a new government can come in and really stick it to you if you are wealthy. They also told me this past summer the car market was tanking and who knows the bottom. This can happen in the US also, but it almost always would take more time. So I do think its a factor, because its the first thing I hear when I talk to people in the UK. However, yes, it is not the only factor.

One other thing, I don't think its possible to fully appreciate the range and complexity of Brexit consequences, so even if people have put it off their minds for a little while, I think its there in the background, and it will be only after its happened that we will really know. It could be somewhat muted, or a real disaster.

 

The 812 is far from a poor design or ugly. Just drive one!

 

Light colours don’t look bad either [emoji846]

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very well said and its thought provoking. Remove ICE from Ferrari and the sounds/emotions/feelings/experiences that it brings (you get the car with the engine philosophy), what is left to justify the massive price tag and looming depreciation. Maybe they can patent or trademark their NA V12 sound in 1st gear and have every single electric Ferrari fitted with it. Because I'm with Scraggy I'd probably go elsewhere for interior/MMI/convenience/comfort aspects to driving otherwise

 

It’s cold, wet, 3 months away from spring, people worried about what the election might bring. This won’t last unless the election goes the wrong way and we have more deadlock. Pretty typical for cars that need to be sold in the dead of winter to be low priced. Others will wait it out but either way, normal Ferrari depreciation has resumed for now, not meltdown.

 

That only considers the demand not the supply side, by spring we'll probably have 400 812 ... Too many in too little time.. Market can't absorb

25 pct down for a car that's effectively 1 year in the market... If not that what's a meltdown... And there's more to come as with the VS a new design will arrive (assuming rumours are true) giving hint to the 812 successor in 2021 ....

 

The UK car market has disintegrated generally, ask any dealer of any brand, so there are local issues at play (risk of a Marxist government/Brexit etc) plus Ferrari specific issues have been highlighted by others, time of year, oversupply, overpricing, GTS launch etc etc. The change in commercial policy by Ferrari has seen the most swift and dramatic collapse of the previous approach in less than 6 months. Quite spectacular really, though they would counter they are still selling the coupe and GTS orders are full. So they , as a business have had no impact whatsoever, as it seems people are willing to lose this level of money with no change to buying habits. It has become the cost (excessive) of wanting the latest Ferrari model. This will hit the GTS in the same way, the VS too if it is like the Pista volumes and priced at 500k . I do know a number, and it is increasing, of people deciding to keep the coupe, not go for the GTS , and keeping their cars longer and are not bothered, excited or seduced by the new models, fatigue maybe. So they are enjoying them then, which after all is a far better idea . The 812 is a sensational car. Of course the F8 has also hammered the Pista , so there is a whole V8 world of drama being played out too. The people really suffering are the dealers, and wait until they are being asked to trade a coupe when an owners GTS arrives, and they cannot afford to buy the car to take into stock. Then the bun fight will get real.Will we see Ferraris hit the trade auction ring ? They will probably need to to dispose of stock. Interesting 12 months ahead in the Ferrari world. But a great time to get a brand new 812, minimal miles, with a 30% plus discount , a buyers dream for such a sensational car. If you do not want Tailor Made or Atelier, you would be crazy to order from the factory. In fact any Ferrari now, if you do want personalisation, you are far better going for a delivered car and pay a lot less with the huge discounts that are around these days. Portofino, Lusso, 812 , even Pista now. There is nothing , bar a Monza I would think, you cannot get a massive discount on. Great cars at great prices !