308 Weber to TWM throttle body and electromotive

Mark,
More or less we are taking the same approach. I 'm using a 6" x 5mm trigger wheel. Shaved the balancer 5mm so the trigger is even with it. (I will set it with screws once fitted to the crank). I was going to use the Denso 196-2005 sensor but it will limit me from adjusting the height so I ended up with the shorty ZF. I will be using the same setup as the image below but going with the bracket on the 2 lower water pump housing bolts. With the covers on it will be a tight fit but there is about 1/2" clearance to get the job done without drilling in to the cover, will have to replace the 2 bolts with about 1/2" longer. I already have my machine shop working on the rear cam cover and should have something by the end of the week. I will let you know how it turns out and cost if anyone else wants to join.
PS did you use a 2.4k resistor across the leads on the ZF ?

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I have all my sensors on the ECU's 5V sensor supply so I used a 1K resistor. I left like 6" of wire on the sensor and put a connector with the resistor at the connector pins under heat shrink.

 

Motec

Sadly, I'm a dummy.... I just paid people to do it. I wouldn't know where to find the cam trigger.

 

Peter,
Don't feel bad. It's not an easy task and not to many people have the tools and machinery to fabricate parts. In my case my best buddy has a machine shop and I get away with murder basically. I just have to wait for him to make time for me. If that was not the case it would have cost me a small fortune.

 

Wow, great stuff. I did almost the same thing on a 400i. Ran it that way for a couple of years. I didn't do any dyno testing but it seemed that the HP was just as stock but the MPG went way up.
I used a Megasquirt ECU, set my target AFRs and let the ECU auto-tune the VE.

 

Mark,
Image Unavailable, Please Login I have a hard time understanding the concept of using a 90 degree cutout on the cam trigger wheel like the one below. Even though Motec advised me that it will work, I was always under the impression that the ECU is looking for a missing tooth or a raised point to get the signal.

 

I don't build them like that but with a hall sensor it's no problem.....it just gives the sensor more time is all. You'll set the ecu to either the rising or falling edge ...so it triggers on the change low to high or high to low respectively and doesn't care how long it spends at each condition. Nothing to worry about.

Edit- this is mine, kind of the opposite. I originally made it for a VR pickup so its narrow but works fine with the hall sensor I switched to.

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You really got me thinking about doing the setup on the adjustable cam wheels using one of the bolts as a trigger. I think I can get away from drilling on the cover. Maybe fabricate a bracket attach it to the pensioner and cam cover bolt hole and mount the sensor in between the 2 pulleys. Do you think that the bolt will give the sensor enough area to pickup an accurate signal (since it's curved) ?

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The curve will be fine for a cam trigger. If there is a few degrees of noise it doesn't change anything. The bigger concern being too close to the other bolts and getting a false signal. You need to be at least 1/4" away I'd guess and 3/8" would be better so like a 1/2"-3/4" longer bolt if your mounting perpendicular to the bolt.

 

Do you agree with the attached statement?

 

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It looks like an older ecu maker's spec, if that is the spec for the ecu you have you should follow it. My ecuand most other modern ecus have no such requirement. Am M800 it a 20 or 25 year old design and has querks like that.

 

Running M800. We bought them at the same time sometime ago.

 

I think that was 15 years ago and they weren't new then

I ebay'd mine and bought an M150 when they came out...6 or 8 years ago?(so a life time in electronics years) as part of the V12 project....then realized I would end up with about $12k-15k in motec **** before it did the stuff I was planning to do because there business model involves making lots of claims then bleeding their customers dry to actually do the stuff they claim so it went on ebay, I swore off motec products for life (had a pretty bad experience with the US distributor, total ****...deal was great, distributor not so much) and I bought an enginelab.net that does EVERYTHING the M150 would do for $1800, I absolutely love it, not for everyone but perfect for me......i have 12 separate MAP readings, can you imagine how easy this makes syncing the TBs? and I added code so the ECU automatically trims each cylinder based on the MAPS reading so even as the TBs go out of tune the engine stays in tune ...I just love it

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I think it was more like 10 years ago. Right before I left Lancaster for Atlanta. If I remember we bought them from an Australian vendor. Yeah I guess they are old. I want to see how much they will charge me to calibrate the COP’s and injectors. They have been in Australia for over a month and just got word that they shipped them back.

 

my V12 project just turned 12 and I know I bought the M800 to install on the V8 but switched to the 12 before I got it finished...13 or 14 years? I along time for sure. Its still a fine ecu but a little quirky at times like with how the cam sensor must be positioned.

 

I think I have the M8 from memory.

 

There's a blast from the past! 1st gen of the 16 bit stuff I think that goes back to the days when the electromotive that started this thread was really one of the best ECUs out there because even though the processor was dirt slow they used a formula as the basis to calculate fuel and timing so even when the ecu couldn't keep up with reading table during changing revs the engine still got at least a close to right mixture and timing. I remember trying to work with an old 8 bit 1st gen haltch on an FSAE car that couldn't read the tables as fast as the engine could rev so a neutral throttle blip always results in engine bog and only having an 8x8 tuning table to work with and dreaming about the power of an M8 or electromotive.

When the M1 series motecs came out they had a video? or chart? I forget, that compared a jetski bouncing off the rev limiter as it bounced over waves and the M800 needing like 100msec to get the engine back on but the M130 doing it in 10msec resulting in a huge lead. You guys with OLD ecus would be amazed what a fast processor and the ability to have basically as many cells on the table where ever you want them will do for drive-ability and just how friendly the tuning interface and setups have gotten. Night and day difference....tables for everything it seems like. I had a fuel pump failing and didn't even know (cause I hadn't set up the error light stuff), the ECU reads fuel pressure and had tables for injector flow and deadtime vs fuel pressure so my normal 58psi fuel pressure had dropped to 10psi before the engine started running bad. Times have changed.

I can't wait to hear the comparison old electromotive to new Holley...I suspect he's going to be pretty happy he made the switch.

 

Mark,
You got me thinking !!!! While talking with Motec a few months ago they suggested that I go with the M130 or M150 not realizing that I had already the M800. I just a had a look at them and the are pricey not sure even if they are worth the money compared to what's out there. You have been involved with them much more than I have. Is there another ECU that you would recommend??I know that you are happy with the enginelab...

 

Lots of great options depending on what is most important to you.

The Holley looks nicely done for easy install and setup. Looking forward to the report.

Motec stuff is stupid expensive. It works well but it seems to be 3-4 times what other options with similar capabilities cost.

The enginelab I use is like an M150 with the development package but without access to a package library....if you want it you need to write it ( mine is available to anyone who wants it). AEM is an enginelab, they wrote the "model" and rebrand.

Then their are probably a dozen options for a v8 around the $2k price point ...its just about the features you want.

 

I don't know anything about these guys, but ran across them the other day for a different project I'm working on (nissan SR20DET)... haven't investigated much, but here's a link:

https://ecumasterusa.com/collections

sjd

 

Well!! I need good engine functionality with all the sensors that I will supply the system.
MAF, IAC, TPS, IAT, CTS, O2, Knock, Crank, Cam, DBW. These are all basic sensors that we currently have on today's automobiles. Trying to accomplish SMFI so I invested on the ignition expander. Nothing really to your extend. If you believe the 800 will do the job I will stay with it since I have it and move on.
Your thoughts?

 

MAF? Refresh my memory....what is the setup?

I know you can do DBW with the M800.....I think it was an option you had to enable and I call reading they wanted to tune it to your particular actuator, but not sure they still offer that service....or if I'm remembering right.

On my v8 there was a very noticeable improvement at idle going from semi-sequential to full sequential injection so that is the only thing I will be part of setting up any more. Certainly worth doing IMO.

Today, pretty near any ECU made will do what you're asking for, as will your older M800 which was 1 or the 1st that could handle the DBW on your list. What has changed with say the M130 is it uses a way faster processor so it can handle a way more sophisticated control scheme which mean you end up with a better mixture under more conditions. I haven't spent a ton of time looking at lower cost ECUs (read ZERO time) that couldn't handle my current or any or my semi-planned project ideas so I'm not sure......I know that even a megasuirt MS3 will do what you're asking these days.

ECUs that try to be all things to all setups are much harder to get setup.....with engine lab you have to write a "model" which is kind of "programming lite". The motec and MS have LOTS of settings and calibrations you need to deal with.

The other end of the spectrum is something like the Holley that hand you EVERYTHING and you just bolt it on and go. For many people having to replace a few sensors is much easier than trying to create a calibration table for the sensor they already have.....a system like that gives you the best setup tech's time without you needing to pay by the hour.

 

Instead of a baro sensor I will be using a combination MAF ITS by Denso. Even though I have made the adapters for throttle body to use IAC and TPS, I highly entertain the DBW idea, as they have a build in TPS and much easier for idle control.
The Holley looks pretty good. I'll give them a call to see if they will sell me just the ECU as I have fabricated my own wiring harness.

 

I have just called Holley to get details on the ECU and they will not release that info. Any details on the unit or instructions?