lack sf90 interest?

I don't see that Ferrari is getting better at all. Sadly, Ferrari is getting worse, worse than EVER, the SF90 is the clearest evidence!

 

Exactly! It's enough to look at it and it makes you feel like >>

 

Imho sf90 is a debacle - a very sad situation for ferrari especially when design was always their key strong suit. Ive never seen such a frill laden overly complex fussy awkward heavy looking design from Ferrari ever. They seriously need to return to using clean stylish unfettered lines - styling which doesn’t need to rely upon a bevy of fins, vents, clown nose striping all over the place to get attention. I only hope to god LB isn’t a scaled back repeat version of this hunchbacked mess. Ferrari owes it to themselves to do better than this!!
Ferrari is entitled to make a mistake along the way - and be forgiven - but in this case i don’t think they can afford to screw up the design like they have given the new emissions requirements making cars less attractive to the enthusiast along with the strength of todays fierce competitors.

 

There is a saying about judging a book by its cover.

Well, it's not meant to be a LF replacement, it's the next step up from the F8.

All plug-in supercars are meant to be on tender for two reasons: 1) Topping up the motors' battery, so the engine won't have to do it and 2) (and that's a Ferrari trait no matter the powerplant), to keep the starter battery from draining. When I tracked an i8, I had to pull into the pits every 5 laps or so and plug it in. I am sure that Ferrari's system will be better than that.

Technically, the SF90 is the best Ferrari yet, bar the LaFerrari. Whether you like the design or not is irrelevant.

 

1) I would agree there are a lot of better looking books to read these days Realzeus - anyway as you are such an sf90 fan you better make sure to buy one of these, or else! And make sure to pay full list to maximize the memorable ownership experience. You don't want to miss it!

2) I'm not sure many would agree its a step up from an F8 but nice try. Maybe price wise it is but that's about the start and finish of it.

3) Oh c'mon enough already. Put the Koolaid down if not just for one second. Surely there is enough battery on board to start the damn thing? What happens if you take it for an overnight run and there is nowhere to plug it in? Or do I need to stow a mobile generator on the passenger seat? Or is it just for looking at and wondering why? I'm with Mandalay - give me a cup cake and I'm outa here!

4. Technically the best? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that. Bar a Laf? So you admit the Laf not only looks better but IS technically better? Thank god we can at least agree on one thing!

Realzeus, from where I come from if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. I hope you get my point here. Down here in Aus we generally don't care to mince words. It is what it is. Plus it's been so smoky and hot down here lately I can't take any more BS....so please excuse my frankness.

 

Opinions are opinions and this thread pre-supposes the SF 90 is a failure because nobody is lining up to purchase. So it makes sense to me that people who don’t like it will post those opinions over here.

No big deal.


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it's not the sf90s problem(ugliness) rather the problem is related with the car's critics. because plenty others like it. so it's totally unfair that someone declares it as a failure sitting infront of his\her keyboard without having firm evidences of that matter .

 

I guess you choose books by how fancy their cover is (the exterior design in this case). I, on the other hand, care about what's written inside (how a car drives).

So, you think that it is not technically more advanced and ultimately a lot quicker than an F8? Really?!

We are not talking about a day or two now.

Isn't it obvious? This is not a LF replacement. The LF is the halo model, the SF90 Stradale is a 1000 HP regular production model. Maybe you haven't understood the positioning of this car and that's why you are being vitriolic in your criticism towards it. Think of it as a new age Testarossa-512 type flagship, not as a hypercar. LaFerrari's successor will be that hypercar.

Oh, that toxic smoke might explain your aggravation towards "anything" SF90 Stradale...

 

I think it’s ugly, but I like the powertrain and the interior. The price will be eye watering, however. It will also depreciate like nothing else.

 

Heavy depreciation is going to be part of SF90's ownership experience for very obvious reasons. In US or EU the purchase price (and depreciation) will be around half what we would experience here in Aus so it's perfectly understandable more buyers of these types of cars will take risk in regions where car taxes are low.
Due to our huge taxes buying a new SF90 in Aus would sadly prove to be a very short exercise in how to turn 1 million dollars into 300K or less.
The biggest problem with SF90 from what I saw - apart from the competition - is its looks, ridiculously high price tag and, unknown reliability, and that is bound to impact new sales volumes and re-sale-ability.

 

Zeus a car is not a book. I'm done with the semantics.

Other members who have expressed a more favorable view on SF90 are free to disagree with my opinion. I am not offended. I saw the car and I didn't like it at all and have expressed my reasons why. Others may see the opposite and i'm also fine with that! I'm not going to go over and over repeating why I don't like it nor contesting those who do, so please understand I'm done here now Zeus. I've said my piece so please leave me to enjoy my cup cake and coffee!

PS. This thread was questioning SF90's lack of interest, obviously based upon the high percentage of members who have commented a dislike for the car. So I guess in that sense the answer was obvious without myself or anyone else having to detail their reasons why, and for that I must apologize to my Ferrari loving brethren who see SF90 as a car appealing enough to buy one. I truly wish them well - and may the horse be with them as the saying goes!

 

Last time I criticized Zeus’s blind love of new Fezza products I got suspended. My thoughts are known by those who know....

 

Understand. I've also been intrigued with Zeus's defensiveness over all things Ferrari. I think perhaps he just needs more time to come to terms with the reality that every brand is capable of making an unpopular model including his beloved Ferrari brand. I can only speak for myself here but after all the speculation and hype leading up to BB's release I was expecting it to be a real stand out, but sadly it wound up a major anticlimax in the eyes of many Ferrari enthusiasts (myself inc). Many would have been hoping BB would serve as their next Ferrari forward from Pista. Oh well....it's not the end of the world. Pista is excellent and looks like a properly styled Ferrari should look. Maybe it really is the last true Ferrari. Certainly looking that way at the moment.

 

Everything!

 

That's not true. If you visit the Roma threads, you will read about my dislike of that car's abomination of a front grille, that ruins the whole design for me. Technically, it is just a slightly better Portofino, so nothing the get excited about either. I just happen to like the design of SF90 Stradale, but above all I admire its technical prowess and performance. It just amazes me that people care more about the looks than the data sheet...

 

So all you need then is the Vette or Ford Shelby Mustang or Nissan GTR, or 720s. Nothing wrong with any of those. Great stats.

 

Weight is always an enemy, but it's just a figure that can be overcome. The SUV comparison in invalid, as they are not only heavy, but also have a high CoG and drag. At the end of the day what matters is how a car performs (lap times are a good indicator of that) and how it feels to drive. Now, no one here has driven the Stradale, but it would take a brave (read deranged) man to bet that it won't be brilliant.

They are all great cars. The 720 is as fast as a Pista in a straight line, it just doesn't have that lag free marvel of an engine that the Ferrari does. The Ferrari is quicker around a circuit and feels more nimble, but all in all, both are great supercars.

 

I really do like the looks however until we have driver (not journo) reviews I will hold my judgement. Having spent a fair amount of time in a 918 which is quite heavy I must say I did not feel the weight. Hope to drive the car mid year

 

I’ve been intrigued by his defensiveness towards all things GPF/EU regulations. Lol

In all seriousness, I appreciate his recognition of progress regardless of how ugly it may look (or feel, or sound etc...). I believe we need people like Zeus to ensure we don’t get too stuck in our ways. But that won’t stop me for fighting for what I want... lightweight, noisy as hell, gas-guzzling, naturally aspirated supercars!

PS - I actually really love the way the SF90 looks. Just my opinion. With that said, I am in total agreement with you that at this price point, they have swung and missed. As you mentioned, this should be a step forward for Pista/F8/488 owners who want something more. Instead we’ve got something that’s extremely over-priced with marginally better performance, unknown reliability, needs a Peloton for Christmas (if you get it, you get it ), and will most assuredly depreciate like a rock.

This leaves me very intrigued to hear what the press has to say when they finally get their hands on one.


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The GPF is a good thing for our lungs. Noise regulations piss me off too, but what can you do?

They are the best! Hopefully the next LaFerrari will retain the V12. I wouldn't mind a 1000+ N/A V12, combined with an additional 500 HP of electricity though, hopefully rear wheel drive only.

Why would you say that? The way I read the stats, the Stradale is vastly superior to a Pista/F8.

 

Zeus is just overly zealous - he's fine by me. You just need to know when to walk away. I reckon if Ferrari were to give an award for effort in brand preservation they would give him a golden horse logie award.

I'm sure it will drive well but the overall visual concept resembles more of an overly extravagant 2 seater sports SUV than anything else. Even the overhang and wheel gap are far too excessive for an exclusive high end sports car... One could fairly say it's very truck like....like a hummer attempting to be sleek and stylish or something of that nature. So on that score it's not such a bad looking SUV excepting the rear visibility looks to be quite a challenge.

Yes but in comparison the 918 is a much better proposition as a hybrid sports car in every respect. Porsche also has a lot of experience over Ferrari with hybrid drive, now moving even further forward with Taycan introducing ground braking battery placement and charge rate tech for an EV. If only SF90 had laid a flat pack battery down low like Taycan instead of creating such a massive hunchback arrangement perhaps the design team could have been able to design the body with better proportions and more cleaner flowing lines. It would also handle better too instead of having to rely upon the raw grip of an awd system to wrestle the weight through corners. A car of 1800kgs with that much power will be losing swathes of rubber through the corners and will need reshodding in next to no time.....

For someone like you shack it will definitely need a new set of shoes by the time you get it to Hobart. I'm damn sure of that.

 

We’re making progress! We now admittedly agree on two major points!

Regarding the performance comment, I think this has more to do with diminishing returns than anything. So it’s not really a nock on the SF90, but rather a reflection of us getting to a point where enough is enough. Do we really need cars that can do 0-60 in <1.5 seconds and top out over 300 mph? And would this useable on public streets?

My point is, had they slapped a 850 hp NA v12 in this thing, it would still be fast enough to delineate between the F8/LB and people would be lining up left and right to get one, even with its $750k price tag. Depreciation also wouldn’t be nearly as much of a concern due to the limited life expectancy of the V12 moving forward.

Instead, we have an overly complex car that nobody really knows how to evaluate because it’s so technologically advanced/new. It’s not a tried and true recipe for success, therefore people are timid to accept its existence and scared by the notion of spending ludicrous amounts of capital on such an unknown item. Is this the way forward? Maybe. But it may not be. I think it would have been a better strategy to leave the techno trickery to the halo/hyper cars instead of attempting to introduce it on what is slated to be a new model segment altogether. I’m not saying bold new technology is a bad thing. It’s what has made Ferrari great in the past. I just don’t know that taking on the likes of the Aventador, head-to-head, but at a $250k premium is the best option to try out such new technologies.

Now, if... the 812 replacement ends up being a mid-rear engined V12 and the SF90 ends up being a more limited production run, this all starts to make a lot more sense to me. Kind of like treating the SF90 as a holdover halo car until the real Laf replacement is revealed a few years down the road. Only time will tell.








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Also, to my points above, I don’t mean to come off as overly negative towards the SF90. I actually really love the design and the whole concept altogether. I hope that it is a major success and everyone falls in love with it once they start hitting the streets. I think it’s just the price point that’s rubbing me in the wrong direction and confusing to me.

I know, I know, it’s a bargain compared to other hyper cars with similar performance. It’s just seems like too high an asking price for people to knowingly take a bath on depreciation. It’s almost like this car was designed as a luxury item for the ultra rich, as opposed to an exotic toy for your typical exotic car enthusiast.

You can get away with high price tags on collectible limited editions that will appreciate or hold their value. But a regular production car at this price point... well it better be f**king spectacular from behind the wheel to justify that kind of a write-off.


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