for a variety of reasons, i can see needing a 4 seater vintage ferrari in the next 2 years. i rule out the 308 gt4, and anything younger than that. please give me your opinions on these as to which is the best car to own. my first reaction is to get either a 400/412 i, or the queen mother 365gt 2+2 thoughts?
As long as the driver is 5' 2" and the kids are dwarfs. If you want to actually put 4 normalish sized people inside then you are looking,in chronological order: '63-'67 330GT 2+2.365 Queen as mentioned or the 365/400/412 series. All the other F cars that have 4 seats are a waste of time unless you're using the rear area for luggage or somesuch reason. Of the 365/400 range the auto's are the 'unloved'one's,the 365 and 400GT's (last of the carbies) are the most coveted . If you go onto either vintage or 365/400 thread you will get all the experts in the world ... Cheers,Simon...Ex 330GT 2+2 S1,Ex 308GT4 2+2,current 365GT4 2+2.
i am kind of leaning towards the 400i or the 365 gt 2+2. the 365 has that vintage look since it resembles the superfast. whereas the 400i has that 70's funky look that is kinda cool.
I grew up in a 365 GT 2+2 and still have it. It is definitely analogue, but much more “civilized “ than a 330 or 250. I’ve spent a fair amount of time riding in a 365gtc/4 and a 400i and can say they are light years more modern. Vintage cars are an acquired taste. My daughter finds the 365 “smelly” and hot. My son appreciates it for how it makes you feel. My wife hasn’t been in it in a decade. The C4 is probably the best mix of modern and vintage. The 400 is much more comfortable and driveable. The QM doesn’t like traffic, the clutch is heavy, and if you get stuck in traffic, it will get very hot. Unless you convert the ac to a modern system, it is barely tolerable. On the open road, it is euphoric. It pulls like a freight train and after I had a custom radiator built to fit in the original frame, it is a cool sob at speed. You can also put a hockey bag in the trunk, which made age group spring travel hockey quite enjoyable.
You also pay more the older you go......NTTAWWT. Enzo era cars are the premium with the 365/400 being the paupers......the Queen is in the middle.
I agree with the others here. The C/4 has a luggage shelf not real rear seats. Assuming you need 4 seats then the 250, 330, 365GT, 365Gt4 and 400 are the choices. As stated the QM is a beautiful vintage with a great engine. Maybe add a 2nd rear a/c with a Sanden compressor and it will fix the comfort factor. Also upgrade the engine cooling and fans to keep it from overheating. In stock form it doesn’t like traffic. Note that the QM has a kingpin front suspension with a mile and a half turning radius. Not the smoothest ride for such a big car. I dunno......while the later 365 GT4 and 400 have better systems they just don’t look as classic as the curvy QM. I don’t think of them as vintage.
Ross........I chuckle at your choice of words. Not sure any of us here are “needing” vintage Ferraris!!! Lol!
as others have written, the C4 is a two-seater. The older 2+2's are lovely but old technology, harsher riding and parts will be dear. For me the only 2+2 choice has been 400/412. The latter is the last iteration of the classic Colombo V-12 engine and the car that the Commendatore last drove. Find one that has been diligently driven and maintained, of which not very many exist in the U.S. You will find these in Switzerland and Netherlands and they will often be priced above 100,000 Euros. At 89 I may finally be looking for the next caretaker of my 412, acquired from the Vice-president of the Club Ferrari France with full provenance of just two earlier owners and service Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login .
I had a QM for 10 years - a big car, but noticeably more torque than its 330GT predecessor. Fitting four adults is easy. Perhaps easier to work on than the 4-cam 400/412. I think all suffered from the rear-levelers, but there are several decent remedial fixes these day in the unlikely event you get a car that still has its original Konis. It's purely a matter of taste, but I much preferred the shape of the QM - last of the curvy PF designs of the 60s. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If you're gonna spend over 100K for a great 400, why not look at a used FF? The $$ lines will cross somewhere, maybe sooner than you think.
Okay......that settles it.......get a QM and a 412!! After all since you need a vintage 4-seater you must need a classic 4-seater too!!! Ferrari Chat to the rescue!!!
While Ferrari says... "The 365 GTC4 took up where the 365 GT 2+2 left off and, thanks to careful interior design, Ferrari succeeded in slotting in two small rear seats, while retaining the more compact dimensions of two-seater coupé bodywork." And the linked webpage above calls it a 2+2. However, if a true 4-seater is needed then I'd choose a 365 GT4 or 400i (always loved those, so elegant!). Prefer the body lines (aesthetically) of the earlier car over the 412 as well.
I think the 308 GT4, 365/400/412 have already come into their own. Especially the 308 GT4. My gut tells me the Mondial will stay the red haired step daughter forever. That's absolutely fine to me!!! It tends to find love among contrarians like myself.
Although the 365 GTC/4 had 2 small rear seats, Ferrari didn't actually call it a 2+2 and it did not have 2+2 in its name title. The link on the Ferrari site here says that that it only partially fulfilled the role of the 365 GT 2+2, as the rear seats of the 2+2 seating arrangement were marginal, for all but very small children. The backs of the seats do fold down however to give more luggage space. The 365 GTC/4 had a wheelbase of 2500 mm, which was only 100 mm more than the 2 seater sport berlinettas of the previous 11 or so years and GTC cars with short 2400 mm wheelbase, but 100 mm less than a 250 GTE 2+2 with 2600 mm wheelbase, 150 mm less than the 330 GT 2+ 2 and 365 GT 2+2 with 2650 mm wheelbase, and a full 200 mm/ 7.9 inches less than the 365 GT4/400/412 2+2 cars that had a 2700 mm wheelbase.
Great info, thanks. As a previous Mondial Coupe owner (8 and 3.2), the interior arraignment of the GTC/4 would be very familiar to me.
thats a nice car ! and i recognize the original dealer i have been looking at the swiss cars because thats where i would buy it and keep it. where is yours located?