488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

I had the TTS for about 3 weeks and then had to dump it. I like the looks and it drove well + the acceleration was incredible but it got boring real quick not to mention the awful UI and other features. It is way overpriced.

 

Drove the Z06 back to back with the 991.1 TTS, would take the Z06 anyday.

 

I was referring to the Taycan Turbo S

 

Ha! This is seriously funny man. Thanks for the comic relief.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

To your point he definitely had reservations especially coming from a Perf which he seemed to really enjoy. He probably should have just kept it and skipped over the Pista. I will say that the Pista he spec'd IMO was awesome. I would have had a hard time getting rid of that one.

 

Shadow- Ferrari falls off its exalted throne. The brand and the 488 has gone from amazing to massive disappointment. The significantly upgraded version of the 488- F8 is a ridiculous purchase not only from the driving perspective, but monetarily will be worth 50% of its value the moment the start engine button is pushed. The Pista he owns is causing him some cognitive dissonance. He wants it desperately to retain its value so he mitigates his criticism of it and simultaneously attempts to half heartedly emphasis its virtues. Due to his vested interest in the GT2/RS, he proffers unbridled enthusiasm upon his beloved Porsche. He extols its unending virtues devoid of any negatives. Porsche has become what Ferrari was just a short time ago. My how things have changed.

 

If engine note is of preeminent importance, very few cars can compete with the Perf. Can easily appreciate why Dustman was disappointed by the Pista. As much as I value the sound, I personally am willing to compromise in favor of compelling and visceral driving dynamics.

 

I had one for two and a half years, it was a great car. I modded the heck out of it and had a lot of fun with it. The infotainment interface did suck but the Burmester sound was very good. I never got beat at the drag strip by any Corvette. My car ran 10.5 @ 137 in the quarter and I raced a lot of Vettes. I know there are some thta are faster than that but I never ran into one at SA Raceway.

 

For clarity, I was given a Pista allocation because I bought a speciale.
I was hopeful the Pista would sound good enough.
Of course I could have declined to take delivery but custom 1 of 1 spec and no $ downside so I took it.
Knew immediately, as in drive away miles, so I moved on quickly. I do enjoy trying different cars of course. The hunt is fun.
Regarding the Perf, I was ready to move on from it at the time. Same as all the 458’s. Both have left a lasting impression.
720, Pista, 488, 650, 911tt and even lusso just don’t make the noises I need.
If I can find a CS I’ll get one. Same tdf.
Maybe the new Evo “perf”. Fix the seats and that car is maybe the best of the bunch.

I don’t take offense to those who disagree. I care about what makes me happy and am comfortable with knowing what makes me tick.

But if you haven’t owned or driven, don’t come off as a know it all d!ckhead.

 

Can't argue with wanting porsche to go back to what they built their reputation on

 

Ok let me deal with your points one by one Coincid if I may.

Ferrari falls of its exalted throne? Well not from my doing. Maybe they did a swan dive with their latest offerings....

Now 488; 488 was amazing on its day but the competitors offerings which appeared shortly after threw a spanner in the works to a degree and certain shortfalls became undeniable insofar as which offering was the better overall package and car to drive (note I mention the word drive - not park up or fluff around going to cars and coffee trying to get attention. So yeah it's true that due to the competitors subsequent offerings 488 became a necessary casualty regardless of Pista. But 488 was still a good car and in comparison to F8 still is imo esp for the $. I've no regrets with 488....enjoyed the ride....and i put a decent amount of ks on it so can't complain even though the loss on the way out was a surprise but mainly because of the assurances given along the way by Ferrari - which wound up total BS.

F8? Well it may struggle to achieve 50% when you consider the direction the market has taken and now with covid. Once the numbers increase in the traffic it isn't going to be pretty getting out of it I suspect. And F8 ridiculous from a driving perspective? I wouldn't call it ridiculous, but it drives more Bentley than Ferrari, but you drive a Pista and then get into an F8. I'd be very surprised if your findings are different especially knowing what you expect from a car like this. But either way that's what I thought.

And Pista causing cognitive dissonance? Lol. I've given my opinion on the sound fail whilst the car is at low or off throttle trafficable speeds along with it having an overly high ride height not befitting a track focused car, and I don't back away from saying those things even as an owner, but at least these things can be corrected. I've already dealt with the sound issue by adding the controller so I'm awaiting on further feedback from Germany on the suspension set up now and if I can drop it a bit and dial out some of the understeer and tweak the steering to make it feel even better then I'll do it. Bit like the Manthey kit for the 2. Its not the end of the world if I don't do it as the cars are so good anyway.

And desperately wanting it (Pista) to retain value? Lol not sure where you got that one from? Fwiw I haven't any plans to sell mine any time soon as I see it as being a keeper so whatever its worth from here on into the future is pretty well meaningless (well to me anyway). So I will put whatever miles I can put on it and if it does 100,000ks then great. I'm not saving it up for anyone.

And re my gt2 being more representative of a track focused car with the elements all in correct alignment vs Pista is just calling a spade a spade. You only need to look at the stance of the pair alongside one another to figure that one out. No bad against either car. No 3 legged horses in my stable and appreciate all for what they are....and they all get used properly. Nothing has really changed for me otherwise. Maybe for others it has but from my position I'm status quo. Only beef is not being able to take them out for a good run due to corona situation.

 

Ultimately, all that matters is that these cars provide the enjoyment and pleasure for which they were created.

 

Still say if your looking for a visceral driving experience from F8 then get ready for a dose of reality. Don't mean to be a kill joy but if you've owned a Perf then the sound is going to be very hard to swallow... F8 is a great car and the general ergonomic is better than the Perf and I think it looks way better too but it's not very visceral as weekend fun type toy imho. More of a luxury GT Tourer. Wife will like it more than the Perf.

 

And that is why I will never get rid of mine...

 

I don't blame you when you look at what's mostly coming through now......a very sad situation indeed in more ways than one.

 

Shadow, I'll be trading my F8 (Bentley) in when my Spider arrives this coming winter and I'll guarantee you I won't lose 50%. No offense but you're really coming off as some as someone that is new to these types of cars. I'd like to know your credentials as a track driver. Some of the people your arguing with on here have posted their lap times and have set many lap records at their local tracks in a variety of cars and compete in race series. Other then you telling us you have a driving coach and do some track days I'd like to know how you know the F8's dynamic abilities better then F8 owners or seasoned racers that magazines employ to test these cars. I've have not read as damning a critique of the F8 as yours. You must have Mario Andretti's ability to find one of the most praised cars of the moment the F8 a soft unsporting mess.

 

F8 is not a visceral experience? Maybe in comparison to a Camry or lexus it is, but as a Ferrari not IMO. I can see why some would hold their 458's and the likes. I'm also not referencing F8's dynamic abilities - more how it excites me in comparison to other cars I've driven and owned. And no I don't race for red bull or any pro team. Sure I've done a lot of driver training over the years - always enjoy the training and honing skills - but not for the purpose of setting lap times even though I'm sure I can turn a good time anyway. My passion has and always be in driving cars and having fun in my cars on a circuit and wherever with friends of like mind, which I've been doing ever since I got my licence many many years ago. Worrying about impressing people on forums about track times is for the birds so far as i'm concerned but by all means feel free to post up your own if you feel that way inclined. To me there is a lot more to a car than a lap time. But I do understand for many they look up to the lap time as being justification for all things.

PS. And whether you do 50% or 100% is of no concern to me personally. But basing potential losses off historical performance of a similar model (488) in more favorable times than now (covid) would indicate a likely harsh beating no question. But then if you are rolling out of one and into another same car then you can stave off the inevitable beating to a lesser degree on the short term. That I would agree is plausible....and certainly the better way forward.

 

None of the newer cars loaded with every electronic nanny known to man that you continually praise are all that visceral. It seems you’re shopping in the wrong era.

 

Viscerality can be entirely subjective. One man's tumult could be another's respite. I therein lie the fundamental folly of your thesis. Both new and older cars are exhilarating to me for different reasons. If you feel and 488 or F8 is not satisfying, that's fine, but I would argue one perhaps is not driving them in the proper context. The newer offerings on track have caused me some hair raising experiences. If your experiences differ, well I must say you have quite impressive thresholds.

 

Shadow's response to Ferrari is akin to a guy who has been jilted by his first love- An over reaction of animosity. Do I think the F8 will be sufficiently visceral to satisfy my preferences, perhaps not. I readily admit that my predilections for more engaging, compelling and thrilling driving dynamics may be more extreme than the norm. Due to this fact, the 610-4 Huracan, 720S and 488 were ultimately deemed lacking. The F8 does move more in the direction I seek, but ultimately I may need to let it go and hope the 765LT will fit the bill, which I am exceedingly optimistic that it will.

 

TDF is another level, I wonder if you would drive it enough to enjoy. A Scud, CS or even a 600LT you could drive just about daily. I am not sure I would leave a TDF sitting in a parking lot. The others to me are not as big of a deal. I mentioned in another thread that you try an F12, I just added a Capristo valve controller and lowered it - much better now. They are about 50-60% of MSRP so you drive the crap out of it and not worry taking a crazy hit. If you want it more aggressive add a full exhaust.

 

My apologies, as I'm late at the party. Isn't the animosity limited to the newer cars? I've seen this sentiment with a wide variety of topics with others as well. I'm guilty at times of nostalgic reminiscing on subjective things like music as well.

 

His souring on Ferrari is aimed at the brand and towards the new cars. His ownership began with the 488 which he lauded and defended fiercely from any criticism and staunchly eaxelted all things Ferrari. Once the 488 was sold, his attidute towards Ferrari and the new models, with the exception of the Pista, another car he purchased, took a 180 degree turn.

 

Have you tried the 600LT? I have only been in as a passenger, but my sense is the car is more playful than many of the other cars out there- it reminded me a bit of the 458, though newer. I was impressed.

 

There's no maybe IMO - STO (Evo "perf") is going to be bonkers as really just an STS for the road. Massive "real" weight reduction and many race components. Cant wait!! Seats in the Perf are quite fine - for certain sized people.

Car was supposed to launch at Pebble - but now who knows