488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

Thanks for bringing me up to speed @Coincid

@Shadowfax
Nothing wrong from my point of view if you've had a change of heart. It sounds though that your main point of contention is the current models have lost some of the 'mojo, character, magic, or whatever subjective word you want,' right?

I've often heard this, and have felt similarly, but I understand the context. A lot of the current cars feel more refined and isolated, yet paradoxically are light years ahead in terms of real dynamics.

I've come to believe they are not intrinsically divorced, as higher levels of performance demand tighter tolerances, a by-product is polish.

I often prefer the 'warmer' sound of analog vinyl, but I don't profess that digital is 'inferior' -, the artifacts, distortions, and flaws are the very elements that give vinyl their unique sound.

We are all blessed men and women, that we can choose one over the other, or as I do - appreciate both.

One can own an iWatch and a Patek Philippe.

I do raise my eyebrows on those that argue in absolutism over one and deny the qualities of the other.

 

A lot of Pista owners thought it was going to be the last V8 ICE Ferrari and we’re willing to pay whatever Ferrari asked for the Pista. Since It wasn’t the F8’s been a piece of crap to those people. Some owners I know we’re pissed as I stated months ago with proof in the F8 VS thread. If there’s ever an F8 special they’ll be hell to pay on here. Like most owners I expected an entirely new car for 2020 but after a month with my F8 I’m happy with every aspect of it. It’s better then the 488 in every aspect including in cabin sound which along with the looks are all I ever wanted its replacement anyway.

 

I need to contact my dealer. They have known nothing about this new STO. The seats in spyder use are not functional as the spyder config affords less room/fit/adjustments.

 

You might need a new dealer. I have known about this car for quite some time

 

Ferrari is simply copying the same game Porsche did on us. .1 GT3 as last ever NA flat 6? boom! A .2 GT3. 911R as last manual NA flat 6? boom! A manual .2 GT3. Well, at least it still has the wing and not looking like a 911R. boom! A frigging touring package came later.

How about how those poor dudes who literally almost paid two legs and a hand plus a kidney to acquire the 911R?

My point is you cannot blame how people complaint and sour on how a car company "betrayed" them. There is a reason. It's just that I am on Fchat now and not on RL. I am sure I will be encountering the same refute like Shadow received here if I were on RL.

 

Can't argue with that, as long as owners are happy thats all that matters, I think we will be happy with any of these models in a few years time as everything becomes ev and we just are so happy to still have access the best ice cars

 

unless you love the automatic exhaust pops in the performante, I would just buy the 16M. who was selling his 16M recently?

 

I know most aren't taking kindly to Shadows comments but if you are honest to yourself you will see there is a lot of truth to what he is saying. Perhaps not a knock on Ferrari but just where the industry is going. There are a growing number of people who prefer older cars for the very reasons he presents. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to figure out what you like or want vs. what you don't. I will also say that all of these cars are special in their own way and not every car fits every person, fortunately we have choices. Most importantly we are bickering over things that in life dont really matter, this is where most of us go to have fun and escape. No need to be so critical of a persons choice here. Nor is there a reason to keep telling people what there is car worth or will be worth.

Coincid, I agree with Shadow that you might not be happy with the F8. You might be hoping for something that's not there. You will likely do what Dustman did and sell it quickly. IMO there isn't a good replacement for the perf today and there may never be again. Hopefully it works for you and you do enjoy it.

 

On my list, one of my all time favorites

 

for the money on a barely used one you cant go wrong

 

I have not been in perf but, I went in a friend of mines huracan, I can certainly say is was loud, angry and aggressive in terms of sound and if that is anything to go by then I understand that that is the sound you are going for but, it sounded very different to ferrari sound. Maybe "ferrari sound" is now dead but, after a ride I defo would not exchange a ferrari for a lamborghini, maybe I'm super bias as the London guys that have lamborghinis are a total different crowd and I really don't like that scene, the London ferrari guys are so much more chilled and seem to be happy to talk to anyone that takes an interest, a very humble bunch of people that despite their worth are never condescending to anyone. Perhaps I'm stereotyping from personal experience but, this experience has certainly influenced my personal car buying choice and I wouldn't by a lamborghini because of it, certainly that can change but not atm

 

There are cool people and d icks from all brands. Just look at some of the people here that post.

 

Buying a 458 isn’t a bad choice. It’s still beautiful, sounds great, is faster than we need on the street, and has a balance that’s missing in a lot of the newer and ridiculously fast cars.

 

Lol, I think it's just the scene I see which, is of course a hugely bias and personal way of seeing things. People on here don't necessarily come off as d cks to me just highly opinionated which, in my books is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm a highly self reflective person thats how I feel I am able to keep learning and moving forwards instead of staying still and am highly opinionated as a byproduct of huge self reflection but, I think its important to stand behind what you think and fight for it, that's how we get stuff done and progress ahead instead of just going the easy path with the crowd

 

I have been consistent in asserting that the evolution of the super car has been towards greater technical capabilities, more speed, refinement and comfort to the expense of visceral, engaging driving dynamics. For many, this trend has been met with overwhelming approval. However, others, including myself, lament this paradigm shift. My preference is the synthesis of both superior capabilities combined with compelling and a tactile relationship between driver and car. The Performante has come closest to comporting to my preferences and priorities. The F8 may ultimately fail to satisfy. My hopes will then focus on the 765LT which would need to dramatically enhance the drama which was lacking in the 720s. The Performante, Pista, 765 , GT2/RS represent the last of an era.

 

Yeah, so I’m not part of any scene. I just drive cool cars on lonely roads all by myself which is exactly how I like it. None of my friends even know about my cars.

 

Likely the case but I will say the Porsche GT class at least up until now is pretty raw. Not the fastest but certainly engaging.

 

I beg to differ. I can understand your disappointment hearing less than glowing reviews from people such as myself and clearly you have no experience driving Pista least of all the latest iterations coming out of Porsche's GT car division or you would not have said what now have. So on that note, enough said there as I understand certain things cannot be instilled into a persons mind without them having any personal experience of their own.

On the topic of new vs old and which is truly better, my personal findings are that there is most certainly cars being made today which possess ALL of the necessary ingredients/elements which define a car as being unquestionably superior in every single way over the older versions, some of which were also very exciting and rewarding to drive - used as benchmarks by manufacturers to improve upon.

Having a exclusive badge and an attractive physical appearance does not automatically qualify a car as being exciting to drive and again ballistic acceleration and fast circuit times will never substitute for an inadequate mix of and/or missing elements which were there in cars of by gone eras.

 

I don't fit properly and have never liked the ergonomic of Lambo. I have driving buddies who own and I hear mixed stories - some love, and some have been happy to get out - but for me it's not my style of car, or scene. I respect the fact it has a great sounding V10 engine though, although I have never been a fan of the synthetic repetitive backfiring silliness on every lift off. Those types of sounds need to be random and organic to sound awesome - not an exact repeat of the same old sound over and over and over. Lambo needs to lose that imo as it ruins the good side of the v10 sound experience (for me).

 

That was probably the funniest fad of the 2010s... "The Last Of The" era of supercars. Last of the manual, last of the na, last of the non-LED lights, last of the smaller than 19 inch wheels, last of the...

 

The 2019 Perf did not have the pops. Only that sonorous , mellifluous symphony with a low frequency gravitas that is difficult to live without.

 

in all honesty, I don't think anyone can really argue against how much of the sound is considered as the fundamental building block of the emotion. It is rather illuminating to me that we have not complained much about the lack of hydraulic steering, or the overloaded electronic steering when we have been discussing the rawness of sports car in the recent few months.

If F8 is a natural aspirated engine and with all the technological upgrades, I bet none of these conversations would even exist at all!

of course, it will be even golden if it has hydraulic steering.

Imagine 720s with its carbon tub and hydraulic steering, and it now has a naturally aspirated engine, I will buy one in Verdes Ithaca color right away, like tomorrow.

 

Porsche GTs are compelling to drive but they seriously lack the aesthetic, and design excitement I require in a super car.

 

It does. In my two hours of test driving the HP spider when the top third of my scalp is exposed and more hair loss as a result of it, Shadow is right. The pops are synthetic at the very least.

 

There is no party to be late to.

Frankly I wouldn't read too much into Coincids personal evaluation of my ownership and driving experiences. These are my experiences or, maybe I'm mistaken and Coincid is imagining them as being his?

One thing I have found though is Coincid does have a strange tendency to embellish words by creating an imaginary story out of someone else's experiences, rehashing things negatively out of context, and I've always wondered what drives him to go off on these tangents.

Either-way I will say he certainly has a very vivid and creative imagination - his psychoanalysis being somewhat entertaining if nothing else. Hopefully his issues may resolve once his winter is over, the snow melts, and he has those few weeks to drive his car before the next onslaught of winter?

Anyway from where I sit I've always called a spade a spade, exactly as I've found it and will continue to do so even if I own the cars in question.

Whilst I have expressed certain disappointment I have no reason for sourness least of all animosity against Ferrari or my Ferrari's - pretty sure I've been very clear about that and if not will gladly provide more detail if it helps Coincid resolve his issues, but in saying that I'm not going to stop calling a spade a spade.