488 - 488 Pista poor exhaust noise with closed valves | Page 3 | FerrariChat

488 488 Pista poor exhaust noise with closed valves

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by GoHardGT3RS, Mar 5, 2020.

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  1. junc

    junc Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 2, 2007
    498
    Chicago/Laguna Beach
    Full Name:
    Jun
    Ive pinned the valves open on all my Ferraris including the Pista. Ive discussed the valves before with Shadowfax on another thread months ago. I can understand what his viewpoint is since that is what his trusted tech of 30 years has told him. Ive also asked techs at two dealerships and they have said there should be no issue. In fact I hesitated pinning the valves on the Pista initially due to Fchat threads but it was suggested to me by the tech when I complained about the lack of noise at low revs. I just chalk up the differing tech opinions to another Ferrari communication issue of which there are plenty. My car runs fine but maybe Im not running it hard enough to cause an issue. Who knows.

    I have heard that you cant pin the valves open on the F8 because of new sensors.
     
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  2. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    uThat's on a Pista, right?

    Do you track your car?

    Thanks for your info!
     
  3. scott61

    scott61 F1 Rookie

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,606
    North of Boston
    Also I have not heard a Pista but I think my GTB sounds pretty good now that it's broken in. I'm coming from a very loud Huracan that was supercharged and had a Fabspeed exhaust and after 3 years with that car the sound became a little much. My 488 has a nice more natural sound, much better than the other cars I looked at, 720s and 600LT
     
    Mighty Joe likes this.
  4. BCHOW

    BCHOW Rookie

    Jun 30, 2005
    49
    Burlingame, CA
    Full Name:
    Benson
    I’m also hesitate to plug the valves on my Pista due to the Fchat threads. But I think I’ll just go ahead and do it.
    Thank you for your post to further assure my decision.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  5. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Would be great if you can report after! Just received my Pista and I am also thinking to unplug the valves on mine...
     
  6. junc

    junc Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 2, 2007
    498
    Chicago/Laguna Beach
    Full Name:
    Jun
    Yes in that sentence Im referring to the Pista. I have not tracked the car as of yet.
     
  7. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #57 Shadowfax, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
    Thanks junc, but keep in mind this advice didn't just come from my trusted tech of 30 years. He was only confirming and relaying the info from the engineers involved in the Pista engine and it's systems. The word is the Pista engine is a completely different kettle of fish to the Gtb engine and not to be confused.

    Also keep in mind that when you put an aftermarket system on this car with high flow or no cats which is valveless that a remap is required as the engine won't run properly otherwise, so it's clear the stock ECU won't accommodate these changes. Nothing new there really.

    Anyway I'm fine if some want to do this or that instead - their car. But keep this thought in mind that the lack of sound issue doesn't exist in track conditions anyway as the throttle is on and off so frequently there is never enough time for the noise to stop. So in that situation undoing the valves really serves zero purpose other than interfere with the pattern of the ECU which is closing the valves upon each lift off to pre-load the boost.

    I've always maintained the lack of sound is only a problem during light driving and cruising when the engine is not being worked hard and this is where I find having the flexibility of the controller is golden.

    And re the F8? Absolutely I was assured this is the case and was told exactly why but again if others wish to say otherwise, I'm fine with that as well. I have no intention of buying an F8 anyway but those who do maybe should unplug them and see what happens....check it out. For me it's not a case of who's proven right or wrong - I only provide info at times when it is relevant to the context of the thread or questions being raised and if I can help or add something relevant I'm happy to do so.
     
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  8. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #58 Shadowfax, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
    Guys I just got back home from swapping out my Pista for Gt2 at my city residence which is a good 100k away from my house up the coast and I don't know where someone got the story that the Pista valves open up at 2700 revs because it's not the case at all. In stock setting it's actually very hard to determine exactly at what rpms the valves open even during light throttle but it feels to me to be more like at @3500revs or a bit more. The Pista is hugely different from my 488gtb where in that car the valves opened somewhere around 3500/3700 from memory and when they did it was noticeable straight away and dare I say was a bit annoying at times. It was like turning a sound switch on and off at @ 3700 revs. With the Pista the increase in volume varies considerably and is very very seamless and organic unlike the GTB which was rather synthetic so it took me a while to try and place exactly at what rpms the valves were really opening. One thing that is clear though is that the throttle position, load and gear has a LOT to do with when the valves actually open up. There are clearly a very wide range of variables going on there and this also must be why the advice was given don't screw around plugging the valves up or using the engine under loads with the controller on. I guess those who have already gone and plugged their valves up have removed all benchmarks so now so won't be able to know what I'm talking about. But for those with the stock setting still functioning go out for a good drive on a variable road with some tight bends and straights, uphills and down hills and you will see what I mean how there are a lot of variables at play going on in this car with these valves to keep everything so tightly on the boil.

    Ps it was a great run down on the old road today! Very enjoyable...deserted! And just as good coming back up in the gt2. These cars are seriously crazy!!:D
     
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  9. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
    655
    Full Name:
    mark1


    Very nice sound indeed !!!
     
  10. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    On my 488GTB in race mode the valves will open up under 3000rpm if given some throttle but cruising at 3000 and under they are closed. Also,for example at around 4000, 4500 and up they are open and with throttle do not seem to close on coming off the throttle either.
     
  11. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    I have finally decided to install the CAPRISTO system on my Pista offered by my Ferrari dealer. They said they had already installed it on 3 other Pista and no issue at all.

    Just had the first drive with the system installed and the valves open: WOW, what a change in the driving experience at lower revs! Love it!

    Let's see over time if issues occur, but so far I say A MUST HAVE for Pista owners!
     
  12. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    OK, time to weigh in. I have used the Forza Controller on a 458, 488, and now the new Pista. I have never had a single issue with the controller and agree with another poster that the CEL someone had on a Lusso was almost guaranteed a poor installation job. I have never had a CEL from the controller itself. Now on to the Pista. I'll start with the fun stuff, driving impressions and then add some install tips (I did it myself) as I did on all of my cars.

    So Shadowfax is pretty spot on but let me add a tad more detail. At cold startup, the valves are closed (seems counter intuitive as the engine is quite loud at that time). After a minute or so, the idle speed and volume drop and the valves OPEN. That's right, it gets quieter and the valves now are open in the stock setting. With the Forza controller therefore, at idle, the sound would only be affected during the first minute or so of cold startup. I actually think the valves are closed there because that's when the car "spits" (the water and soot come out the tailpipe). If you have the valves open at that point, it spits more and farther (as in, right into the face of the moron who is looking inside the exhaust to see what the valves are doing:D).

    Now when you go to drive, the valves stay open in stock mode until, as Shadowfax points out, you lift off the throttle. Immediately, the valves close and the car gets quieter. This happens at low, medium, AND high RPM, doesn't matter. Therefore, what the controller does is to keep the valves open on the lift off throttle situations. It is subtle at first compared to what the controller did for the 458 and 488 (which had the valves closed below a specific RPM) but after driving the car a few miles, it "clicks" and you realize how much nicer it is. Certainly no power loss I can feel and the ever unreliable butt meter makes it FEEL faster. Doubt it actually is but the lovely gurgles and zings the car makes as you accelerate and then pull back sound wonderful and harmonious. You feel more connected to the car and the motor.

    It is best to think of the Forza then as not making the exhaust significantly louder overall but more consistently loud. When you put it back to stock mode, accelerate and lift off, the car sounds and feels like it is getting shut down. It's like that jubilant kid in the park laughing on the swing and the parent yells at them to be quiet and they instantly are sad. With the valves open, the swinging has stopped but the kid is still giggling with joy;).

    For install, the valves are still accessed through the inner rear wheel fender liner a la 488. Getting the liner out is easier because you don't have to touch the rear diffuser to get the last screw but more difficult because the liner is kind of wedged in there. I had to remove one bolt that holds the fender to the body to get a little more give. It requires a bit of wrestling and patients but it's doable.

    The other major difference is, you have to splice an extra solenoid (he supplies all the tubing) and then run the wire through the firewall to the fusebox behind the driver seat. I had no pics or instructions for this though I will give some to Steve so you all can benefit from this going forward. The typically useless Ferrari manual simply states "remove fuse panel". Not difficult once you KNOW how to do it but pretty confusing until you figure it out.

    I will break pics up into a few posts.
     
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  13. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #63 johnr265, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    Bumper screw you can remove is the silver hex bolt in top of the 1st photo, then pic with wheel off, pic of the extra solenoid (actually, the third pic is from the other side as there is less stuff in the way.), and finally controller behind carbon engine panel with wires going through the firewall and ground on the chassis. I reused the rubber grommet that was in the firewall previously to plug the hole in the final pic.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login View attachment 2521465
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
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  15. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #65 johnr265, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    Now, at the top of the panel where it meets with the seatbelt cover is another screw that actually holds the seat belt panel to the lower panel. Remove this screw (it is already removed in this picture.)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  16. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #66 johnr265, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    There is only four little pop holders holding the rest of the seat belt cover on and you can gently pop them off by pushing away from the seatbelt into the car. The seat belt slides through a split in the plastic collar. Shown is the backside of the piece where you can see the prongs in the first photo. The second photo shows the four rectangular slots on the other side where those posts are anchored.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  17. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #67 johnr265, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    The lower piece can be removed after removing the two screws on the top that are revealed after removing the seatbelt cover (the one on the top right in the first pic attached to the body) and the one in the top left that connects it to the firewall bracket.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    #68 johnr265, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  19. BCHOW

    BCHOW Rookie

    Jun 30, 2005
    49
    Burlingame, CA
    Full Name:
    Benson
    Thanks so much for all the useful informations and detailed procedures!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  20. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    No problem! Let me know if you run into any issues installing. Happy to help. I have a few other pics too if needed.
     
  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
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    #71 Shadowfax, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    Great work there johnr265 with the pics for the members looking to do the fit up!

    Drove mine again today and for sure it so much better now with the controller opening the valves at lower speeds - heaps better than how it was. As you point out the volume doesn't increase - just that you get it all the time regardless where beforehand every time you lift off the throttle the car goes silent. I don't know how anyone with a Pista could put up with that - so un-Ferrari. That said there is the odd time when cruising that its nice to shut it up - just a matter of pushing the button and returning it to the stock setting. Totally love the mod and the way it is now I'm questioning does the car need to be any louder than what it is. It sounds really good and certainly loud on the outside all the time with those valves open although I'm still pondering the Kline full system as it will make it even better and give better spool up plus when the valves are open its already straight through so I guess its just the added volume from the higher flow cats. I'm very tempted even though I am reasonably satisfied with how it sounds now. Decisions...
     
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  22. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    I'll add one other thing as I drove it again yesterday. Downshifts under braking are far snappier/meaner sounding as well (makes sense because the valves are open now when they would have been closed there). Agree with Shadowfax, having put a few more miles on it, it is a noticeable (in a good way) improvement and I'm loving it!
     
  23. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 19, 2007
    934
    you guys got me super excited for the car. just hit 92 yesterday, and i have the Forza controller in hand.
     
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  24. Jason B

    Jason B Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2006
    397
    Hbg, PA
    I’m a dealer for Capristo and have a promo on these controllers now as they’re in stock. If anyone needs shoot a pm and I’ll help ya out.

    I have the Capristo exhaust and the valve controller on my own car and it works great and sounds incredible. Also, the remote for the Capristo controller is super nice. It’s metal and has a great feel very high quality. I like it better than the key.
     
  25. Autolove

    Autolove Karting

    Jun 8, 2012
    236
    S.A. TX.
    Full Name:
    Ivan
    Are all the same for all ferraris? Pista and 812 is the same model?
    So price for a pista and 812SF thanks
     

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