F12 TDF current market pricing and volume

... with GPF, possibly with assist/turbo, possibly not LE, etc.

"Then what?" Not much changes relative to tdf. Not much at all.

 

well, that is certainly true. A TDF is absolutely a wonderful car. I am sure I will get one.

I am equally sure Ferrari is going to create more amazing, 'must have at all costs'...'this one is a keeper'...type cars. Of course, they are. That is their function in the market. Separating massive sums of cash from folks like us

 

F40 vs f12 TDF, cars from different times in Ferrari history. And the F40 was made when Enzo was at the helm. As someone else pointed out, a supercar vs a non-super car. F40s have proven to be truly special in the market place and will most likely remain as such. Too soon to tell about the TDF. Numbered cars don't automatically mean they will become future 'f40' level cars. Numbering a car is a marketing effort primarily.

My crystal ball is no better than yours. Between the virus and the massive fed reaction, normal market forces are in flux. Personally, I am keeping my car buying powder dry until later this year or 2021. Trying to balance wanting to be optimistic with news like this: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346773-u-s-job-market-is-in-serious-trouble-why-exuberant-stock-market-may-soon-follow-part-1?utm_source=push&utm_medium=onesignal&utm_campaign=14-05-20-article-2

 

Yes I do, this sale is quite odd.

You see, an auction is a perfect place to dump a car, no one gets to do a pre-purchase inspection, sold as-is, why else would you literally dump a tdF that is a good spec for under 600K ? (net to seller)

 

that is not really possible when dealing with Auction Houses like Gooding. (or RM etc) they won't allow you to sell a crap car. They LOOK for reasons to reject a car. Sure, lower end 'dealer auctions'...absolutely buyer beware.

It sold at a price that the buyer and seller agreed it was worth. Maybe that is all that matters. I too was surprised....and remember this was BEFORE the pandemic.

 

I don't need a crystal ball to determine what cars I find exciting enough to buy and enjoy. Market/environmental noise are completely independent variables. This is Ferrarichat not Marketchat.

If one never sells a car, then who cares what the market is doing and how many miles one puts on the car. tdf is for enjoyment not investment.

 

Driving V12 car is more fun than sitting on a pile of powder.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Your guess is good as mine.

However, just looking at where the automotive industry is going....

812 very well could be the last N/A, non hybrid V12 Ferrari. If such is the case, there is really only one car that could outdo the TDF and what it stands for. That is the lightweight 812. First, it is possible that the 812 lightweight does not live up to the "out-of-control" nature of the TDF. If this were the case, then the TDF would become even more sought after imo. And if the 812 lightweight does everything the TDF does and more, the TDF will definitely still hold its own because it is that good.

Basically, F12 tdf could be the sweet spot of pure V12 craziness that makes it one of the most sought after Ferraris ever. And moreover, i's created such a stir in the Ferrari world that I think regardless of how great the 812 lightweight car is, it will always command the attention of collectors. Whereas (aside from the name and lower production numbers), the 599 GTO has already been outshined by the TDF (imo), which pretty much does what the GTO does, but better. The GTO will always command value, but will it be a halo car? Not so sure... So when it comes to stratospheric Ferrari values, I think it comes down to the combination of production numbers and the unique, irreplaceable "hold-on-for-dear-life" experience that the car provides.

TDF will go up in value, the question is at what rate. I think that will be determined soon enough--when we see the new lightweight 812 and whether it brings our attention back to the TDF or takes it away.

 

big sticker car just posted in classified if anyone is looking to buy...

 

Market goes up and down just like car values. One thing I do know is don't buy a car based on what you think its worth in the future, buy it to enjoy it and whatever is left at the end, think of it as a bonus. Personally, I don't think cars will go up in value as less collectors are out there. The next generation doesn't even want to drive to work, they rather uber/metro/walk so I don't know how many people down the road will pay to just look at cars. Material things are fading away like Grandma's china.

 

Like Tim said, no way any reputable auction house would sell a bad car and I'm sure people inspected it before buying or did their research on it. You think a dealer or auction house would ruin their reputation at a place like Amelia Island? I looked up the carfax, it was serviced at Ferrari Dealers and owned in Delaware before the dealer listed it. The guy even put 690 Miles on it, which maybe that makes it a car to dump? Just making up excuses to the reality of the market

 

So, selling a tdF for less than 600K is just market reality? Yes, I know the buyer had to pay 731K, but the seller (Algar Ferrari) netted less than 600K. Why wouldn't Algar just put it on their website for 700K and sell it in a heartbeat? I suspect the car was damaged by them (or they at least knew about it), they (probably) fixed it and then turned it.

Sorry, I am not buying that this is a simple case of market reality.

I do find it curious the car's ownership has not be updated on carfax, it may have left the country.

And, the auction house could care less about the condition of the car. And you don't get really much of an opportunity to thoroughly check out a car at auction, sure, if you can find the owner and they want to talk you might learn something, but there is zero expectation or requirement. That's why auctions are a risky place to buy a car.

There isn't even a guarantee the car's title (if it has one) is correct and it is not stolen, that's totally the buyer's responsibility (see last link below).

I have first hand knowledge of a car that was actually wrecked by an auction house, they could care less, it was on the buyer to have it fixed. The auction house has strongly written contracts, and they are held harmless no matter what happens.

That was a Mecum auction in Monterey a couple years ago. I actually found a video about this just now:


Suffice to say we disagree on this one.

some light reading:

https://www.bbb.org/us/wi/walworth/profile/auto-auction/mecum-auctions-0694-1000016116/customer-reviews

https://www.bbb.org/us/wi/walworth/profile/auto-auction/mecum-auctions-0694-1000016116/complaints

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-an-auto-auctioneer.html

and, this is the auction where that tdF was sold:

https://www.goodingco.com/terms/#conditions-of-sale

note this:
GOODING’S INTEREST IN PROPERTY
All Vehicles in this Auction are offered by Gooding as agent for the seller of the Vehicle (the “Seller”) and not on behalf of Gooding. Gooding shall not have any liability or responsibility for any act, omission, default or failure by Seller.

You should read the entire link, good insights there.

 

To be fair, Mecum is more of a circus than an auction the likes of RM & Gooding

 

They are ugly! Only way for them to sell is finding a buyer who wants a pairing. Not too many exact-same-goofy-spec Aperta/TdF's in the world.

 

Hi,

Any of our UK or better London base Fchat friends know this TdF?
It’s sitting in a famous London dealer for more than one year and since then price dropped already more than 100k£. Now offer for 665k£
It’s in the stunning F1 2007 color with around 2.300 miles.

Is it a clean car or had some issue? anybody knows the history of this car?
what can be today market price?
I saw the car in person in May last year and it looks ok except minor scratches under front bumper and rear diffuser. All easy to fix.

Any PM is welcome!

thank you
Bests

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Don't know the car but as you will know we price rhd cars higher in UK.
DK have just priced and sold a rhd tdf at £650k (pictures on tdf picture thread) so not surprised the price for this one is reducing.

 

Thanks for your feedback!
I know very well that car sold by James last week. Amazing bolt spec IMHO., same color of my Pista, and well priced being a TM.....unluckily was rhd otherwise I would have already stopped the hunt!!

 

Good luck with the search !

 

The car at Joe Macari is being sold on behalf of one of their clients, ie they do not own it. I am being told it is a very nice, clean car with no stories. The price is not OK not cheap, you can get lower mileage cars in the European market right now for 700k EUR and there’s plenty of supply both advertised and also off-market. The colour is Rosso F1 2007 and looks amazing. If I bought another TDF this would be my choice of colour

There are few buyers in Europe right now looking to do such a purchase without needing to trade out of something else and dealers are very reluctant to do deals, either because they do not own much of their stock these days (commission sales) or because they are worried about committing liquidity.

The classic car market has also gone very quiet although asking prices are firmer and it feels like fewer people are in a rush to sell.
It is a buyers market and it will get softer


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat

 

The fear for me is buying one out of lust, which I do, then getting this very expensive collector car home and not really knowing what to do with it. I love to drive my cars...they must be ready for many miles, road rash risks, parking lots, etc.
I adore the tdf but I think it would break my heart.

 

I am the one who started this thread and thank you for bringing up this timely dilemma.

i understand this feeling as I drive all of my F cars, two of them, three to for days a week. And there is one car, like you, where I would flinch. That car is the TDF.

And as of today, I am the excited owner of a TdF coming to my house! And we are going outside for some fun! Get some overrun on that throttle! Will do a comparison with my 812 in a later thread.

 

Congratulations.
Enjoy !

 

It’s so entertaining to read many of the comments on this thread, especially from those who are waiting for a recession “to buy one at 40% off”.

Reality is, if you didn’t buy one when the times were good, then how/why would you buy one when times are bad?

Secondly, this is not a recession in the traditional sense, it was manufactured to fight Covid.

Ferrari seems to be killing it as a company, pretty sure they are not going to be giving cars away any time soon.

Yes, the TDF is a very special and limited car. They are not going on sale any time soon. There are a few bad specs that dropped, but there are also amazing specs selling for over $1M, they are just not advertised.






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Congratulations, can't wait to see pictures and hear your thoughts about how the TdF compares to your 812.