Hill Throw Out Bearing failure | FerrariChat

Hill Throw Out Bearing failure

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JIMBO, May 10, 2020.

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  1. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

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    Jim DeRespino
    Friday afternoon, taking the 512TR out for a short cruise, 77 miles since the major, 40 mph and BAM! a LOUD intermittent, then continuous metal on metal scream from the rear. 2 seconds later, half a clutch pedal, then no clutch pedal (pedal went to the floor without resistance). I immediately pulled over and shut her down. No leaks, inspection normal. Called AAA for a tow.
    Then, sitting in the car, the clutch pedal feels normal and I can shift through the gears (engine off) with no problem. Try starting again - same noise.
    During the major I disassembled the clutch pressure plate and cleaned the flywheel. The disc had plenty of material. In retrospect, I did not check the throw-out bearing or make sure it turned freely. I otherwise did not touch the bearing. The first 77 miles since putting it back together were perfect in terms of shifting and the clutch.
    After breaking it down there was no visible damage except for a small nick in the bearing outer case, but the Hill Engineering throw out bearing was frozen solid.
    Seals looked perfect. It worked well for 36,000 miles and I did not notice any noise except maybe a little rattle on start up.
    So, a few general questions:
    1. Any explanation for why the clutch pedal temporarily went to the floor?
    2. Obviously a new bearing will be ordered, but is there any reason to replace the pressure plate or clutch disc?
    3. Should I even take the pressure plate off and, if so, what should I check for?
    4. I don't want to spend $2K+ on a new clutch. Can my present unit be rebuilt, and, if so, can any clutch rebuilder do the work, or are there some special Ferrari-specific values that are needed? It's a Valeo pressure plate.
    5. If the clutch is replaced/rebuilt, does the whole assembly, clutch and flywheel, need to be balanced together (car is not tracked)?

    Thanks for any guidance. Have a Happy Mother's Day!
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  2. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

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    Here are photos from the December 2019 disassembly.
    Check the last photo. The larger metal tube (drive shaft goes through it) became dislodged from the differential housing when I was removing the bell housing and had fallen into the gearbox and had to be fished out. I replaced it in the differential but this seems to be an interference fit only. What keeps this tube from vibrating loose and falling again backwards into the gearbox housing, and will this do any damage (it can't be good). Any remedies, precautions?
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  3. windsock

    windsock Formula 3 Rossa Subscribed

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    You wont like any answer you get from Hill Engineering. Nothing will be their fault. Make sure you read the fine print in their warranty.
     
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  4. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

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    Actually the reply from Paul Hill was prompt and on point. In retrospect I should have checked the bearing for non-smooth rotation or probably just replaced it as a regular service item after 36,000 miles. The actual bearing in their early model clutch release assembly was the same as in the stock Ferrari unit. It was upgraded to a different manufacturer in 2011 (mine was a 2005 model).
    Here is the reply from Paul Hill:

    Hello James,
    Thank you for your email.
    All the clutch release bearings that we produced before 2011 used the factory SKF clutch bearings. In the interest of continual improvement we asked RHP/NSK to develop the clutch bearing for us based on the SKF bearing but using our specifications (uprated seals, grease etc) These bearings have been used in every CRB clutch bearing since 2011.
    The area where the clutch bearing sits is an extremely aggressive environment and these parts are intended to be service replacement items and unfortunately the longevity of the unit has many variables to exactly how long they will last. (We have no recorded problems / issues with that batch number)
    Hope that helps.
    Regards
    Paul Hill

    My seals on the bearing assembly looked perfect and there were no leaks. I received my new Hill Engineering clutch release bearing assembly yesterday fro Daniel at Ricambi. Cost $430 delivered. Cost of OEM Ferrari part $1100+
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  5. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

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    As long as the bearing didn't damage the finger with it's brief lock up, I see no reason to throw away perfectly good parts.
    Just my thoughts. The half petal could be due to extreme heat of the lock up causing the bearing to stick the the flange until it cooled.
     
  6. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

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    I agree. The mating surface of the bearing is smooth and I don't see or feel any sharp edges on the fingers of the pressure plate. I'll go over it with a scotch-brite disc just to make sure.
    Is the bearing always in contact with the pressure plate and always spinning, or does it only spin when the clutch pedal is depressed?
     
  7. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

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    Always spinning. The springs on the back side of the release bearing keeps it in full contact at all times.
     
  8. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

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    That makes sense
     
  9. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

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    Given your bearing failed with 36k miles on it, and well out of any warranty period, agree the response from Hill was courteous and informative. Might have been a little different if, say for example, a bearing failed after 45 minutes of run time, before the car even left the shop, and resulted in thousands of dollars of damage to the engine.;)
     

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