612 Ownership? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

612 Ownership?

Discussion in '612/599' started by colandreo, Oct 25, 2013.

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  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Bob- I would not replace the cam seals unless they were leaking, even though it can be done without pulling the cams on an F133F/H engine.
     
  2. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    my car still have the orginal rods/ ball joint and they are still good.. when they suppose to be replaced ?

    [/QUOTE] In a pre-OTO you're sweating pulling out in traffic esp uphill, significant delay getting 1st to engage. But the twin plate is all but instantaneous.[/QUOTE]

    bob , can u explain what do u mean? I never experienced these issues , the 1st gear engage realy quick in sport mode and shift realy fast ( not as fast as DCT in my california but ok ). also never had problems driving in steep hills.
     
  3. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    experienced shop in san diego qouted me 1500$ belt only said the same thing ..he said its easy job in these cars
     
  4. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,846
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Fair enough. In truth, we didn't replace mine in the major on my 612 some years back because they weren't leaking. But it's on the list, seals come in the kit and there's very real possibility they will be leaking.
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,754
    Yeh leaking on my 09. Second major happening now. Car has 6,700 miles.
     
  6. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,846
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    In a pre-OTO you're sweating pulling out in traffic esp uphill, significant delay getting 1st to engage. But the twin plate is all but instantaneous.[/QUOTE]

    bob , can u explain what do u mean? I never experienced these issues , the 1st gear engage realy quick in sport mode and shift realy fast ( not as fast as DCT in my california but ok ). also never had problems driving in steep hills.[/QUOTE]

    You might have significant play in your suspension and not realize it. There's no interval for replacement, but they do wear out. If you have over 20k miles on your car and have never done a ball joint, I'd get a mechanic familiar with the car to inspect them.

    How I feel about the clutch slip and how you perceive it could be very different. I've had both, an early 612 as a 599 as example of a twin plate and the difference is night and day. I took pride in how well I could engage first and it can be done abruptly or smoothly, but all the wear on that single plate clutch is getting into 1st. I managed just 10% wear in 5k miles, but to get that kind of optimal wear I avoided certain things like stop and go traffic, pulling uphill slowly, leaving stoplights, all contribute. I enjoyed the hell out of my 612 while I had it, but I made it a hobby to maximize clutch for my own edification. No right or wrong, just my driving habit but I do think it saved someone someday some money.

    One thing you might also want to be aware of is the throwout bearing. If you let the tranny downshift for you all the time, you'll wear out your throwout bearing in half the time and thus can add that to your clutch service as a while-you-are-in-there item. If you don't, if you get in the habit of dropping to neutral and coasting to lights which I found much more pleasant anyway, you'll save a lot of life on it.
     
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  7. RichardGilmore

    RichardGilmore Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    57
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Richard Gilmore
    What did FOA charge to fix your stickies?
     
  8. F612

    F612 Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2018
    603
    Leeds,AL
    Full Name:
    David D. Hood
    I think it was $1600 but I’m at the lake and docs are in town.
     
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    There are so many versions of F1 software for the 612 it is difficult to make general conclusions. Originally 180 ms min shift, then with HGTC/HGTS 160 ms, then at the same time HGT2 originated, 125 ms for all 612s, and with the 599 twin disc clutch and Superfast I software, 100 ms. Each upgrade was accompanied by improvements in smoothness, clutch life, and engagement algorithms. A lot of difference between the original F1A software and any of the improved versions.
     
  10. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    [/QUOTE]You might have significant play in your suspension and not realize it. There's no interval for replacement, but they do wear out. If you have over 20k miles on your car and have never done a ball joint, I'd get a mechanic familiar with the car to inspect them.[/QUOTE]

    after owning many cars Porsche, BMW, JAGUAR , i m very impressed with 612 geometry suspension, alignment still straight as arrow and zero tires wear

    [/QUOTE]One thing you might also want to be aware of is the throwout bearing. If you let the tranny downshift for you all the time, you'll wear out your throwout bearing in half the time and thus can add that to your clutch service as a while-you-are-in-there item. If you don't, if you get in the habit of dropping to neutral and coasting to lights which I found much more pleasant anyway, you'll save a lot of life on it.[/QUOTE]

    this is the best advise for all new 612 or any new F1 owners, i followed this pattern from day one and car @ 15k miles clutch wear 56% on sd3 tool (Ferrari dealer)
    and 25% on AUTEL AP200.. ( I LIKE AP 200 BETTER :) )
     
  11. Diny

    Diny Karting

    Jun 24, 2017
    73
    In regards to the F1 transmission, I have 2 questions.

    1) At red lights, would you shift it to neutral, like you would a manual car? I know that throw out bearings can go out if you just sit at the light with the clutch in instead of shifting it into neutral with the clutch out.

    2) Can you turn the car off in gear? I know you can, but should you? In my manual cars, it's a habit of leaving them in gear and with the handbrake on. But what about this? I only equate the 2 because, if I'm not mistaken, the transmission is the same as the manual cars but what changes is how the gears are selected, so perhaps some of the same principles apply.
     
  12. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,846
    Northern Virginia
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    Bob
    I'd already be in neutral from coasting to the light. 100% of the time.

    I dont remember the answer to turning off in gear. I remember clearly being embarrassed I couldn't get my 360 started day 1 because I'd shut it off on gear. It may be I don't recall because from then on had a habit of always shutting down in neutral. But the 612 is pretty much a stretch 360.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Diny likes this.
  13. Anthony James

    Anthony James Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 27, 2012
    353
    Essex
    I always leave it in gear if i'm on an incline because the parking brake is ..lets say ...less then excellent. If you forget to put it in neutral before you turn the key to start...the car knows this and puts it in neutral for you. Fact. Putting the car in gear at a light takes no longer then a car that has self stop start, not an issue. If your on a hill, put your foot on the brake, engage first gear and go to the loud pedal before releasing the brake, like all standard cars. Love the sound and room for four humans with legs.
     
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  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Notes on the throw-out bearing. First, with F1 the clutch is always open when you are stopped, even in neutral. Second, the throw-out bearing is a constant contact type.

    One of our pros said the T/O bearing gets about 3 times the wear of a 3 pedal bearing. Coasting in neutral does cut down on T/O bearing cycles, even if nothing is gained while actually stopped. If coasting in neutral and traffic starts moving, either the upshift or downshift paddle will get you the same gear. That gear will be too high for comfortable acceleration. As a technique, I use the downshift paddle to get a gear and then make an immediate downshift to get a usable gear.
     
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  15. LimoParty

    LimoParty Rookie

    May 16, 2020
    9
    London
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Piper - Like your driving. I also slip to neutral downhill and when coming to a stop. Forgotten if that is a Ben Collins approved method and not bothered if I upset the Police Academy/AIM instructors! Yes, first thing I did was read the manual: 'How to start a Ferrari 612' and 'Driving the vehicle with “F1” system gears'. Trouble with four cars is each one requires a brain reset! Though I can't imagine sweating about traffic with five hundred horse, I've rarely come across anything faster.
    And thanks for more tips from tazandjan and matt dodwin. Yes, my mech is also of the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' camp, but we always change the fluids and check everything. WRT cars for sale here in UK currently, the descriptions don't give much away regarding servicing or options, but maybe I can't read between the lines yet. So I may as well only look at ones that appeal to me visually. Oh it is fun on here.
     
  16. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,846
    Northern Virginia
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    Bob
    Not liking pulling out into traffic uphill in a turn had nothing to do with power at all, but just a disdain for undue wear to the clutch. And really end of the day that's the main reason I got rid of the early 612. The tragedy of the F1 is they were just nearing perfection when they retired them for the DCT.

    I know what you mean about the brain reset. Porsche the key is on the other side, and the shift is in entirely different places from the MB to the Cayenne to the Ferrari. Happens all the time. :)

    Someone mentioned the parking brake earlier, I swear in the 612 it was nothing more than an attractive nuisance. In my business there's a saying, the only thing worse than a lack of security is the appearance of security. Parking brake lever on a 612 is like a diving board on an empty pool.
     
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  17. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
    BANNED

    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
    SF Bay Area
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    Shiv
    #67 m5shiv, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
    I agree with the parking brake but not much else. I have almost 30K on my 2008 since almost new, I drive it without any special operating modes. There is only one thing I do differently compared to the other cars:

    Reversing uphill out of my garage.

    I must wait until the car is slightly warmed up, then I accelerate hard in one clean motion to prevent the clutch from slipping and self destructing. I also come down the hill in neutral, because the software really struggles, pulling the clutch in and out continually at low speed.
     
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  18. MRY

    MRY Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    384
    Monterey Peninsula
    I have an OTO and it has 39k on the original clutch. I’m careful when reversing to be as smooth as possible to avoid it grabbing.

    It just keeps getting better with age, and other than being careful with reverse, it gets used like the other cars.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
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    Shiv
    Agree totally. Ferrari V12s in particular don't get buttery smooth until they hit at least 20K.
     
  20. ThunderRolls

    ThunderRolls Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2010
    352
    Deep South
    Since I was 15, I've used my hand brake to launch a manual on a hill. Maybe not textbook, but I hold up the hand brake until the clutch engages, then ease off the hand brake as it takes off. most hand brakes are easy to tighten if they get loose and are noy yhe most expensive part of the car.
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    In the olden days, the Brits did that at every stop light and stop sign.
     
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  22. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
    BANNED

    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
    SF Bay Area
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    Shiv
    And some hand brakes are so pitifully designed that they can't hold the car on a slight grade let alone a serious one. The Italians are very guilty here, but they aren't the only ones.
     
  23. Schestc2

    Schestc2 Karting

    Sep 20, 2012
    175
    Vienna, Austria
    Full Name:
    Stefan
    #73 Schestc2, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    my 2004 612 with 67.000 km still runs on the first clutch and my garage is very downhill. I think its ll about knowing the mechanics of this system and operate it properly. Its no rocket science.

    On the topic of sticky stuff this really is an awful design. I have had worked on all, really all pieces myself with alcohol, took an awful lot of time, removing the steering wheel, parts if the dash, the seat, etc. but now all sticky stuff is gone and will never come back.

    Dash board shrinkage is under control, having a garage. I keep the leather clean and treat it with special polish to maintain it flexible which obviously helped so far.

    Ball joints were partially replaced. Its true, you don’t feel if it is worsening, in particular when in parallel the tires are getting older. But regular inspections help to review the suspension.

    In general the car is a good design, very different in quality from Ferraris from previous years. It has its faults and it needs attention and regular maintenance but overall its a very reliable car.

    BR Stefan
     
  24. LimoParty

    LimoParty Rookie

    May 16, 2020
    9
    London
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Oh! Hilarious! Well, I've been warned. Pools, clutches and handbrakes. I can't remember a car with a superb handbrake. Perhaps all those Scandies only get to flick their cars on skinny tyres and loose surfaces. Regarding pools and diving boards the only thing worse that a lack of water is a teacher shouting mid-bounce I wasn't allowed to. We both should have known better but I was 11 and still have the scar.
    Regarding single clutch; part of me wishes I had DCT but I only drive manuals with rose tinted spectacles.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    612 handbrake works fine if you 1) adjust the brake shoe starwheel just like the brakes on a C1 Corvette 2) adjust the cable in that order. The handbrakes on the V12s are way superior to the extra caliper on the V8s.
     

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