812 VS Rumors

There also something I have to get off my chest with regards to sound, particularly in Europe. It started last summer when I took my GT3 RS on a trip with friends to the Black Forest. My friends were mainly driving Turbo cars - Pistas, 488s, Portofinos even a Vantage. We attracted so much attention from the police. One time I was stopped after a morning’s driving where we had been uncharacteristically calm in our driving. I overtook a car to catch up with the group and immediately the blue lights filled my mirrors. I protested that we had been model citizens all morning and he said “we know” we can hear your Porsche all over the valley so we have been following you to check. He gave me a warning and on my way. The noise that car makes was disturbing my enjoyment of it.

With lockdown having eased I have been driving our 812 and Pista. These cars are so fast. I never go quickly when in a built-up area or other traffic is around but on a quiet, clear country road I drive quicker and have some fun. I don’t really want the attention that a blaring engine noise brings. The Pista is ideal - it has massive performance, a gruff but purposeful note but not so loud the whole world knows I tickled the throttle a bit. I became very conscious that the 812 cut a quieter countryside more sharply than people had become used to and some were not so happy about it, and we’re not talking about particularly high speeds causing this reaction either.

The ideal is a version of the Superfast that sounds as amazing inside the cabin but not so loud outside. Given that the VS will be even quicker and certainly a car that encourages spirited driving, for all that wonderful V12 goodness to faithfully demonstrate the sound it makes to me, the driver, who paid for it and wants to hear it when using it, seems more important than shouting to the outside world who seem to be happy (for the moment) that such cars exist, so long as they don’t have to hear them.

Like it or not, a pure-sounding, hard driving V12 that sounds mega inside and quieter but just as pure outside, is a more usable Ferrari on today’s roads. That gets my vote I’m afraid. Happy to have free-flowing, ultra-loud cars at a show but for today’s ‘super-fast’ roadcars, if they can keep me excited but private, they’re maximising my enjoyment. And that is important, because they sure are getting expensive.

 

Timed entry to exit would suggest different. Though upshifts after first turn are different. We will see in the next few months won't we.

 

I do agree, I was talking 812. TDF was better as was the 599 GTO

 

well said

 

I would agree with that it has a GPF. Mine which doesn’t have GPF feels louder both at low and high rev. One point to note here is that yes the car sounds good however that sound came on when the car was pushed almost to its extreme, very high rev. I don’t know based on what i heard how it would sound in nornal conditions as a “daily Ferrari”. While I agree with you that the purpose isn’t to have a car that shouts to the outside world a V12 Ferrari has to have a sound that brings emotion and based on the regulations I’m reading if they have to drop a further 2db on the next car you will almost surely not have that pure and enjoyable speed at low and mid range speed but most likely at high/very high rev. That takes the emotion from where you drive your car in town or in any legally speed limited road. As far as the cop is concerned he would probably have stopped you even if the car was silent but an aggressive look only and will undoubtedly stop anyone with the next gen v12 that sounds silent at low rpm and sexy at high rpm when owners can ( only) enjoy the car so i agree with your points on discretion I’m just not sure your unfortunate exoerience with that cop is representative and not sure the next ( much more silent) v12 gen will provide the emotion you are sfter when buying an ( even more expensive at the time) V12 especially as a car used in town or “normal roads”. Let’s just not hope emotion and sound won’t be reserved only for the track where most owners don’t go

 

599 got the first great louder exhaust upgrade but the F12tdF got the full F140 engine makeover with the best and free-ist revving engine yet only 38 hp more than F12B.

 

I agree with your points -
In addition however I must add that my (Non GPF) 812 has been getting me smiling like a moron when I find a decent country road ( loads near me ) , open the windows and where the reverb ricochets off the trees -Also I can’t wait for my GTS and I’m sure GPF won’t spoil it - I’m certain the VS is going to circumnavigate any noise regulations with some Ferrari Voodo magic- I’m a die hard believer that Ferrari will always try to maximize the Aural pleasure to the highest the regs will bend ....

 

There is another issue with external high noise, which is completely stupid but part of the reality in Europe - while performance cars become less and less usable on open roads due to speed limits, many tracks have noise regulations that are problematic for road legal cars...

 

Was this the infamous trip where a Portofino required a change of battery during the drip, facilitated by a certain MAN dealer?

I think sound is important but perhaps one can have too much of a good thing in some respects, I haven't yet heard Pista going quickly but I have heard and 812 and that car sounds amazing so anything based on that for the VS will sound amazing. Is there a case of too loud, perhaps but I think that is also tempered by the fact that these cars aren't used often enough for people to complain or maybe I am just so far removed from reality at the bottom end of Africa where mostly Ferrari's get the thumbs up and one is encouraged to make more noise, sorry music.

 

To be clear does that mean that noise regulations are now also becoming stricter on tracks and therefore it has implications on the development on road cars since the sound from those has to be compliant also with new (stricter) sound levels allowed on tracks?

 

It's not new, it's only getting worse.
Some years ago Ferrari released an aftermarket exhaust for the 458 to limit the noise to 95 dB for track use compliance.
Eventually for compliance to both road and track limits the noise needs to be drastically reduced in all conditions: until now, road limits were typically lower BUT applied in specific conditions (which meant it was possible to play with exhaust valves for instance, to allow more noise at high revs) while track limits are higher but must not be exceeded in any conditions.
A 360 CS is already difficult to run on many tracks.

 

In the US I often get people leaning out their car windows yelling to rev the engine, or people on the side of the road asking for a rev. I have even had a cop at a red light next to me in the F12 giving a thumbs up and saying “rev it.”

I can’t help but think all the “Karens” in Europe are ruining the world for the rest of us who still know how to have some fun.

 

In the US, the euro-pseudo-intellectual-we-know-better-than-you mindset has not YET taken over. Yesterday my wife and I went past a group of millennials in 488. Four of them cupped their ears in unison and gave thumbs up in appreciation of the sound.

 

My experience and sentiments, too.

 

Yep, that’s the trip! That Portofino was blighted it seemed. I think Europe has become quite different in parts these days and though every petrolhead loves noise, if it’s a toss-up between noise and driving, I’ll take the latter. Gotta say, those down changes in the 812 are just awesome though. What a car!

 

What is the basis on paper that is written in forthcoming regulations regarding the decibel requirements? I can appreciate an interest to lower emissions and thus come up with options to reduce that in engine development in general, but what is the issue here exactly? How are people being affected exactly and in what specific manner is this put on paper to justify a regulation?
The noise police are killing cars...a car of this sort should sound the part (at least my opinion, though not necessarily held by all supercar owners), and downsizing the tone and volume is creating a state of hybrid-sound effectively, that is, limited sound--eventually taken to an extreme to be perhaps no sound.

 

I think the inherent problem Ferrari and others face is this need to go faster, faster itself isn't always usable but sound can be enjoyed a lower speed so perhaps the sound is perhaps a "well you cant use 800 bhp" that often but can make a lot great sound at 80 km/h.

Granted down here, "noise" is mostly greeted with thumbs up and encouragement!

 

Very interesting I noticed today one Ferrari dealer in the UK advertised an 812 with the mention “Non GPF car”...

 

That’s the thing, there is no rationale for the decibel limits. This is a classic case of a governing body becoming high on their own power. They are limiting the basic human rights of their constituents simply because they can.... something that’s been happening a whole lot around the world over the past several months.


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I wanted to put out a suggestion for the factory.

For the 812VS, offer a SoundPowerPlus package (not street legal in EU though could be ordered for EU, track-only), price it at $25,000 USD

other possible names:

GPFADASDelete Package

SenzaGPFADAS Package

provides:

NO GPF devices

TUNEABLE EXHAUST (pin exhaust valves, etc)

NO EU-sound restriction exhaust

NO ADAS (no ACC,adapative cruise control, ACC1)(no lane keep, no AEB, etc.)and NO HELE!

IGNITION KEY (no worries about thieves using illicit devices to fool car into unlocking/being started)

 

They built "not road legal in USA" Monza SP1/2, so your request for "not road legal in EU" 812VS seems quite reasonable.

 

Not really. The non-US road legal Monza required no additional R&D vs EU. In this case, the 812VS Sound+Power version would require some work to fork it from the EU core version (physical + software/tuning). If the production is similar to tdf/gto, and we make an assumption that 1/3 of the cars take this option, that's about $6 million of revenues. This is the same number Ferrari spent way back in the 1990s to develop a US version of the F40. You imagine it will be a lot more today. Lastly, whether we like it or not, the car regulatory regimes are converging in the long run across the world.

 

Ferrari would want $25K for each of those items. Even then they wouldn't do it as effectively every LE car is taken before preview and no need to make it difficult for them. The price will be squishy until specs and eventually pics are 'leaked' then the MSRP will be finalized for maximum profit. Sites like this will do all of the marketing for free and buyer will be thankful for an allocation. Same as every other one introduced.

 

You are correct that the Monza did not cost any more in R&D to bring to the US as a non-legal car. However, I don’t they should look at this as an excess cost to appease certain markets. Rather, they should look at this opportunity as a cash cow to bleed their clients dry. Why not produce a Ferrari Genuine exhaust system that must be bought separately from the car, just like they’ve been doing for years with other accessories. In fact, Ferrari actually offered an aftermarket OEM sports exhaust system as a genuine accessory for the 458. I remember a few member bought that system back in the day and it made a huge difference. They also had silencers available for the speciale so that it could be tracked at circuits with more restrictive noise limits.

They could very easily create another system for markets where it is legal, charge a crazy high price and train all the salesmen to push it on all their customers. Tell customers that “this is how Ferrari intended the car to sound, they just couldn’t because of those ridiculous EU regulations”. People would be willing to pay extra for a system offered by Ferrari, installed by Ferrari technicians that won’t void the warranty. This will be huge in the coming years as no one is going to want to void the warranty on 1st Ferrari hybrid tech that will inevitably be extremely expensive to fix out of warranty when things start going wrong (which they will). This could be a great source of additional revenue for the company.













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