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360 CS TCU review

Discussion in '360/430' started by 78bonanza, Jun 16, 2020.

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  1. 78bonanza

    78bonanza Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2018
    341
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    Jim Cear
    #1 78bonanza, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
    My car is a 2000 model year with the second generation TCU 185301. After a year I came to understand why these early cars can wear out clutch so quickly . First gear engagement, regardless of technique , entailed a great deal of clutch slippage , more so than needed in any manual car I’ve ever owned . When it warmed up it was much better but still first gear would slip more than needed.
    I finally decided to try “Eric” for a reflashed TCU ( mine was too early to accept a reflash) .
    The difference was very significant especially first gear engagement when cold or warm . Can’t say I love the F1 but this change was a dramatic step forward . Perhaps those with 2005 regular TCU would not see such an improvement but if you have an early model year this should be seriously considered .
    I wish I had done immediately after buying the car . F’chat members made the recommendation so thanks to you all.
     
    cavlino, Performify, kes7u and 3 others like this.
  2. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,091
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    Josh @jtcarprojects
    #2 clean512, Jun 16, 2020
    Nice review
     
  3. contender23

    contender23 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2012
    21
    #3 contender23, Jun 16, 2020
    I am in the situation now. My car is a 2000 as well. First gear engagement feels as though there is way too much slippage no matter what technique used. Which model tcu did you replace with?
     
  4. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 18, 2012
    3,556
    Canada
    #4 tres55, Jun 16, 2020
    We had an early 360 for a while and the first gear engagement was atrocious. My 355 was significantly more comfortable. I wish I had tried this now. :)
     
  5. 78bonanza

    78bonanza Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2018
    341
    Full Name:
    Jim Cear
    #5 78bonanza, Jun 17, 2020
    Do a search for member “ Eric” . Your TCU will not be “writable “ Eric can source a “new used”unit for you that he can reflash to 360 Challenge Stradale , I.e. CS profile, as he did with mine . He is located in France . All in with currency conversion, shipping , etc about $1400 .
     
    cavlino likes this.
  6. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
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    Toulouse (France)
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    Eric DECOUX
    #6 eric355, Jun 17, 2020
    eric355 :D
    Hi Jim.
    Glad that you are happy with the TCU. Thanks !
     
  7. Performify

    Performify Formula Junior
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    Jan 4, 2020
    382
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #7 Performify, Jul 16, 2020
    I wanted to add on this review with my own. I likewise got a flashed TCU from @eric355 and it's an absolute world of difference.

    upshifts and downshifts at very low or very hard throttle are absolutely insane -- instant and amazing.

    However, about half throttle, upshifts (to every gear but sixth) seemed to have this weird condition that's i thought was almost like a double clutch blip of the throttle during the upshift.

    I recorded a 4-5 shift here:


    it's only on half throttle - more aggressive throttle, or light throttle, and it's pretty much bang-bang amazing.

    I was experiencing something i thought unusual, until the 360/430 Owners Group on FB sent me down a google path that landed me on this article on Aldous' great site and thought I'd share here.

    "The CS TCU also contains “Race Mode” mapping within the TCU which allows for even faster and more aggressive gear changes. Race mode also performs the double declutching operation on up shifts in order to speed up the gear change. Despite not having a Race Mode button, regular 360 cars fitted with an F1 TCU will benefit from the Race Mode maps when Sport Driving Mode is selected."​

    so long story short, the car is now double declutching in certain circumstances on upshifts as well. crazy / awesome!

    Thanks again to Eric, much appreciated for helping transform my car!
     
    cavlino and benporter like this.
  8. wbt

    wbt Karting

    Nov 28, 2014
    234
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    #8 wbt, Jul 16, 2020
    This rev flare has been documented on a few earlier Modena cars with CS transmission ECU, including my own. If you downshift 5-4 with light throttle at highway speed you can also get a clutch slip for 1-2 seconds. Seemingly it can be resolved with a re-flash of bosch motronic engine ECU's to customised CS maps (360trev treatment) although I have not had this done yet to verify. The issue seems to be in the comms between TCU and ECU during gear shifts.
     
    cavlino, kes7u and Performify like this.
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
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    #9 mwstewart, Jul 16, 2020
    I was going to say; my experience is with the F430 but that behaviour is certainly not a benefit and suggests to me that you need an accompanying engine ECU map. That there is mismatch between TCU calibration and engine ECU torque cut mapping (there are also other parameters that can be modified to suit).
     
    Burli81, kes7u, Performify and 1 other person like this.
  10. 78bonanza

    78bonanza Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2018
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    Jim Cear
    #10 78bonanza, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    I have a 2000 360 . Mine , with a reflashed TCU , does not do that in manual mode however It will in auto mode and only on the 3 to 4 up shift as well . My PIS was in mid range after the reflash .
    I emailed Eric about my auto mode 3-4 shift but he never replied
     
    Performify likes this.
  11. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Eric DECOUX
    #11 eric355, Jul 17, 2020
    Done, sorry for late answer, Jim !
     
  12. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Eric DECOUX
    #12 eric355, Jul 17, 2020
    Mark, I have set-up a lot of reflashed CS TCU on 360. Different MY, different ECU versions, different car conditions, different clutch wear ... Only a very few have shown this kind of RPM surge. It is far from systematic on an ECU version for example. I have not been able to identify a common parameter which could explain why this car and not this one.
    For information, my friend's CS is also doing that from time to time, but it has a very worn clutch with probably a sticky throw-out bearing.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  13. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
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    #13 mwstewart, Jul 17, 2020
    Thanks Eric. Did you capture engine ECU software version? Some cars will have been updated (or not) during the service life cycle. It's a bit of a lottery.
     
  14. 78bonanza

    78bonanza Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2018
    341
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    Jim Cear
    #14 78bonanza, Aug 9, 2020
    Now that I have been driving the car with the reflashed CS TCU for several weeks and exploring the “edges of the envelope” with this TCU I would have to say it is transformational to the 2000 360. I now actually like and enjoy the F1 transmission in local driving and at 8500 rpms ( not simultaneously though ) I’m also not ashamed to say I use it in Auto mode occasionally too. I know I deserve to get flamed for that.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  15. MD26

    MD26 Rookie

    Aug 3, 2022
    47
    Chicago
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    Marcin
    #15 MD26, Oct 10, 2022
    Hi guys,
    So i got my CS TCU from eric355 . Super quick and professional transaction . Can't wait to get it installed and will share my experience with you in a bit .
     
    cavlino likes this.
  16. Hutch526

    Hutch526 Karting

    May 17, 2022
    52
    Uk
    Full Name:
    John hutchison
    #16 Hutch526, Oct 11, 2022
    Can anyone answer this?
    The change from an early TCU 176552 to the 196986 CS TCU is a big step up.
    But what about the change from a 2003 211023 to the CS TCU? Is it worth the change? Or is the difference minimal?
     
  17. patina

    patina Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2005
    502
    Lake Norman, NC
    #17 patina, Oct 11, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2022
    The difference is drastic, especially in Sport (Race) mode. WOT upshifts are 150ms vs around 250ms on the 2003 unit. Double clutch downshifts are much more aggressive as well. Cannot recommend this upgrade enough, especially when paired to @360trev 's custom engine ECU upgrade which is optimized for the CS TCU. I noticed more crisp shifts at all speeds and much less slippage on WOT upshifts after upgrading to trev's software vs the oe software with the CS TCU.

    This clip starts in 4th, downshifts to 3rd then back up to 4th and 5th. Listen to the upshifts...

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_GKF6W3fCvU
     

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