328GTS - Switch to Full Synthetic or No?

My mechanic says that Ferrari’s oil recommendation for the 328 is now a full synthetic, unlike the blends of the past. I know from my air cooled Porsches that full synthetic usually leads to increased leaks. The 911 motors also require a fair amount of ZDDP for their flat tappets. Like Ferrari, the dealers will tell you that Zero weight full synthetic is the right choice for air cooled motors, but none of the independents that work with these cars everyday would ever recommend it.

So is full synthetic really the right choice for my 328? Does anyone run a blend such as LiquiMoly (a German semi synthetic)?

Thanks!

 

Synthetic oil is much superior lubricant than a conventional oil, the only complaints I’ve heard from others about using synthetic is that they are more prone to oil leaks as they are more slippery than conventional oil. I on the other hand, have been using full synthetic Redline oil with enough ZDDP to protect the cams for over ten years on my 308 QV with very very little to almost none oil leak.

 

I worry about oil threads going viral given all the opinions they garner, but my Ferrari-trained techs recommended I go with a high quality conventional oil like Quaker State or Pennzoil 10W40. They recommended against adding ZDDP as it can foul the catalytic converter ('85 308 QV) and said they haven't seen any issues with valve trains. Note I drive it less than 1000 miles a year and change the oil annually.

 

I tried full synthetics redline and has leaks everywhere, theses on a 75 GT4, went back to hard to get Valvoline VR1 racing 20/50.

 

I use Mobil One 0W-40 in my 89 328. It is their Euro full synthetic with a little higher ZDDP levels of 1100. I do have a little leak either at the valve cover corner or the dipstick that I’m tracking down.

 

Synthetics do not cause oil leaks.

However, they do tend to magnify an existing leak.

 

Walmart Super Tech 20 W-50...

 

It is well worth searching the oil threads here on FChat. Much has been said. We all have our oil religion.

 

Mobil 1 0W40 in my 89 328 for the past 10 years.

As noted, synthetic oils don't cause leaks they are just more successful in "finding" the faulty gaskets/mating surfaces, allowing you to locate/correct the problem!

FWIW, many leaks are caused by overtightening fittings, warping the mating surfaces. Tightening the associated nuts/bolts to stop a seep often changes the seep to a leak!

 

Hello all,
20W50 is mineral oil, not synthetic.
Where I live temperature is mostly above 70, I used to use synthetic, no leaks yet burned lots of oil.
Switched to mineral 20W50 and no oil burn.
Oils go by viscosity and viscosity goes by ambient temperature. Take a look at the chart and go by that.
Do you guys drive your cars at 5000 rpm all the time?
Synthetic is for "extreme pressure", these engines don't go near that at all.

Just my opinion,

John

 

Just kidding about the Walmart oil. But it probably wouldn't hurt.
Actually, I use Mobile 20w50 synthetic. I think it is best for turbo applications.

 

i've been using Brad-Penn semi-syn 10w40 racing oil for 13yrs.
based on the recommendations of our 'chat group and the fact that Brad-Penn uses the PA crude stocks blended in the old Kendall refinery.
also the need for zddp as required for flat tappet engines.
i have the engine oil and gearbox oil tested every year by Blackstone Labs.

 

If I owned a 2Vi , I think I would do my best to stick with a mineral based oil.

 

Back in the 1960s, the early Mobil1 synthetics could have leaks where mineral oil didn't - then they started adding a seal sweller additive, and since then synthetics are not prone to leaking any more than mineral oils. It's amazing how long some of the ancient wives tales can hang around!!!

Re flat tappet engines requiring high zinc/ZDDP - another misinterpretation. Overhead cam engines are not flat tappet engines in the way the zinc advocates discuss - the "flat tappet engines require high zinc" came from big American overhead valve V8s with high lift cams, pushrods, long rocker arms, stiff valve springs, LOTS of valve train inertia - the forces on the cam to lifter face are MUCH higher than anything found on our Ferrari engines with no rocker arms, no pushrods, tiny valves that don't need excessively heavy springs, etc.

We don't have the traditional flat tappet pushrod V8 engines that require higher zinc, so that's a total non-factor in oil selection.

Biggest issue for oil is based on engine startup - studies have proven over and over that ~80% of engine wear occurs on cold starts (ie ambient temp, not necessarily sub-zero cold), so you want the thinnest possible oil to get pressure and flow as soon as possible. That's 0W, or 5W - 20W oils are hurting your engine relative to the much better cold flow characteristics of a 0W or 5W synthetic.

Next biggest issue is proper oil pressure and temperature management - again, a -40 oil gives good oil pressure numbers if your engine is in anywhere close to reasonable condition. A -50 oil is overkill nowadays, cold pressure will be too high and warm pressure will be higher than necessary (wonder where leaks come from? Too high oil pressure doesn't help ), and too thick oil can actually cause an engine to run too hot because the lower flow rates don't transfer heat as quickly as a thinner oil.

IMHO, the perfect oil for a 308/328 is a 0W40 or 5W40 full synthetic - the Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is one of the best on the market, and also carries the Ferrari endorsement.

One caveat - I recall reading Rifledriver (Brian Crall) posting at least once that he preferred mineral oils on the 2 valve V8s, but full synthetic on the 4 valve 308 QV and 328 engines. (Possibly something to do with the different cylinder liners?)

 

Well, maybe not all the time but yea a lot of the time. 5k to 7k seems to be the sweet spot, at least for a QV.

 

Same here.

 

I also used Bradpenn but I think they changed spec a little while ago to 20w-50

 

robert,
the refinery (new owners since 2015) assure me that all original formulations have remained the same.
they changed the packaging after brad penn was sold. it is now marketed as "penn grade #1". the green oil.
my semi-syn 10w-40 is still produced and with the same quantities of ZDDP.

blackstone labs bears this out as they've not questioned any samples i've sent the past couple years, and
they do look back at previous year's reports.

a word of caution: ZDDP does eat cats over time.

 

Hmmm anyway no cats.

 

So the thing is, if you have ZDDP it will protect your cams but in the long run it will harm the cat, OTOH, If you don’t use ZDDP, it will ruin the cams but not the cat. So what do most people do with cars that has cat beside putting test pipe on?

 

love your cams.....not your cats!

 

I lost my cat in a boating accident and run a test pipe.

 

sure... i was tyding up the underside of gabriella and got a horrible macular occusion from the dust of unbuckling her cat.
tuff **** penndot!
you allow diesels to spew more noxious agents at a single stop light than she could emit during my avg. year of driving!

maybe 350-500mi / year.

 

robert (crowndog),
if you could send me your email, i'll forward brad-penn's recent comments (based on yours) to you.
for some reason, i can't send attachments to me from fchat. sorry.

the comments are straight from the horse's mouth. no B.S. from me.

i think they'll relieve your concerns.

73 bill brooks

 

The ZDDP controversy has been going on for at least the past ten, maybe fifteen years. As noted it all began in the classic muscle car forums and quickly infected just about every other automobile discussion venue out there.

The thing is that after all this time the horror tales of woe and piles of trashed camshafts have yet to make their appearance.