488 La PISTA è arrivata

Button A should be the stock setting and button B is to hold the flaps open. You wont notice a difference on idle because the flaps are open on idle anyway. It is only when you move off the standstill that you will notice. I can tell you it is a significant improvement volume wise and gives burbles and pops on the down shifts and over run down to a standstill. The noise Pista makes is very pleasing to the ear in comparison to how it is in the stock setting especially when cruising around. It makes a lot more noise in fact so much so I have reservations whether I would want it any louder.

If you are unable to tell any change in volume between button A and B during driving then for sure something has not been wired up properly. Try driving it in B for a few ks and then switch it back to A and report back. It's a very noticeable change in both outside and inside volume. It most certainly gives the car a lot more presence amongst the surrounding vehicles, who can now hear you coming.

 

The screens stays on for a while even after turning the car off and locking the doors. It's always been like that in all my 458s and also the same in my Huracan, so I would suppose that is normal.

Also the radio I recall that it sometimes stays on for a while and then turns off, of course you can manually just turn it off by holding the on/off button which I do sometimes, sometimes I do not bother but this comes from a 458 owner who daily drives his car

 

My F12 does this sometimes even after I lock the doors which in these cars is a good idea to ensure it falls asleep.

 

Is it possible that the Forza controller is keeping the system “alive” longer than normal based on the way it was wired?

 

That's an interesting possibility! I'm assuming that if they used the fuse tap on the fuse that was recommended, it ties into the cigarette lighter, which is an accessory. Maybe the car detects that and stays alive?

It's odd that the Forza system wouldn't be working then.

 

It is the case with many cars that accessories may remain turned on for a period of time after shutting off the ignition. For example, I have a new BMW X5. After turning off the ignition, the power windows can still be operated and the radio/entertainment system remains active. After a short period of time these accessories are all disabled. You may want to check to see if this occurs with your car.

Steve

 

True but once you open the door power is killed. I had a similar issue with the stereo buttons remaining lit for a while before turning off and after the service and new battery presto doesn't do it any more

 

Was it on a Pista too?

Dealer sounds like they think they know what it is. But it doesn't sound like a quick fix. Car is going there tomorrow AM and is going to be there for the weekend [at least].

 

488 GTB

 

Alright guys, hope everyone had a good week.

Lots to update as the car's been away for about a week. Dealer has been really good to work with on this one, and Steve from Forza has been highly responsive. You all know how distressing it can be when your car isn't working right. Doesn't feel good.

"Incomplete Vehicle Information -- Contact Dealer" -- RESOLVED

Easy fix for the dealer. Just some PDI information not loaded properly in the computer. No more warnings!
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Forza Exhaust Controller Issue -- Likely Resolved

I put "likely resolved" as we spent a considerable amount of time troubleshooting the issue, and we're not 100% sure it is fixed.

The initial failure was a blown fuse at the fuse tap, shutting down the whole controller system. The Forza design defaults to allow the OEM system to bypass it lose power, which is great. Car as at least drivable. I took it back into the dealership when I posted (about a week and half ago) to have a look as they were the ones who helped install it during PDI. Earlier this week, they thought they had it fixed with the fuse being changed out for a 15A (originally a 10A) as well as moving the ground point. It was working great when I left the dealership. You can immediately tell the difference when it's working!

About 30 mins of driving after leaving the dealer, the system stopped working again. Back to the service dept. it went!

The Ferrari technician was very patient and spent a considerable amount of time on the car. We went over a list of suggestions from Steve of things to check. Ultimately, we decided to move the ground point again, and also heat wrap the controller as the placement of it close enough to the turbo that it might be a heat related issue.

I had the service team keep the car for a few hours to see if they could get it to fail again either by test drive, letting it run for a while, etc. Ultimately, they concluded at that point, all they could do was either put a lot of hard miles on it (which they really wanted to avoid) or hand it back over to me to run the car and see if it was steady. I elected to take the car back since the new fixes seemed to help stabilize the issue. I got home after taking a slightly longer route to heat up the turbos, and everything seemed to working well. It's been 24 hours since then, and we're still good as I write this.

Steve also presented me with a couple other options should the issue not be resolved as well [he's been very supportive and understanding of my situation/frustration].

I will continue to report if any issue arise, but I'm hoping those two fixes resolved the issues!
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Audio Controls On after Car Locked -- NOT RESOLVED

There's good and bad news here. Bad news first: the issue is still there. Good news is it appears to time out within 10-30m. Not ideal, but hopefully a massive battery drain.

Coincidentally, while waiting at the dealership to get my car back and hanging out in the showroom, I noticed something interesting on a Pista Spider that was sitting on a tender. Every 10-15 minutes, it's hazard/blinkers would blink about 7 times. No sound, no beeps. Italian software/electronics for ya.​

BONUS: I decided to get the car lowered and modify the alignment to as close to Robert Mitchell's APEX TAXI Pista as possible.

· I was able to get the OEM Pista Alignment spec in the process. I will share that a bit later when I have a moment to transcribe it.

· I lowered the car about 20-25mm. We were able to compensate for me sitting in the car so it's level when I am in it (driving it).

· I matched the camber specs on Robert's car

· I did not match the toe specs on his car... yet. I elected to keep it OEM for now due to the lack of clarity of the spec in his video. On his video the toe specs are a little unclear as:

1. They are reported in millimeters, which requires you to verify his rolling diameters, rather than degrees
2. He flips back and forth a little on whether the values are toe in or toe out for F/R. Factory specs have the tow out on the front and toe in on the rear.

· As a side note, my SAI or Steering Axis Inclination values looked really uneven for the Front Left [9.6º] v. Front Right [13.7º].

· Service manager was saying that that's likely a result of Ferrari compensating for driving on the right side in the US and crowning of the road. Couldn't find much online about that other than some websites saying a big difference could mean damaged or bent suspension components. Unfortunately there's no OEM Alignment spec on this as there's no adjustment for this.

· Anyone have alignment sheets on a Pista with their SAI values that I can compare against?

· Despite the funky SAI values, I think the car drives pretty straight. My brain may be playing tricks on me though as something I feel like it pulls a little right.
​

Overall, I'm very happy with the slightly lowered stance. It looks much better and hopefully can still get around without much trouble. Pics to come later.

 

Did you lower on factory springs or novitec? Let me know if you experience any rubs on the car when you drive hard.

I’m scheduled to do this on novitec springs when I get back into town.

 

Secret I'm certain my controller unit was placed well away from any heat source from the engine but I check for you next week if you like. I know the master tech here was always very particular to keep it well clear of any heat and I also recall much the same thing happened when they did the install of the Forza on my 488 gtb where the controller wound up located well back behind the rear wheel well. I purchased the longer cable to be able to do that. To date I've never had any issues with the Forza in Pista nor had any issues in the gtb over the term. It all sounds to me to be a wiring and control unit location issue to me so perhaps get the longer cable which will allow the unit to be mounted outside of the engine bay or, well away from any heat source within. Good to hear you noticed the benefit and difference. Mind you its hard not to notice.

 

I just lowered on the OEM coilovers. I took the car out for spirited mountain drive this morning and didn't have any issues. Only thing I would say is the mental fear when you run into a very low speed 180º hairpin on a high grade decline is a little scary. I didn't scrape anywhere but I definitely felt like I was damn close with the diffuser or the front bumper. Both components overhang the wheelbase by quite a bit so you gotta be careful on those roads.

That said, the new suspension settings feel really good. Lots of traction and near impossible feeling lateral grip. Love it.

UPDATE: Forza Exhaust Controller Issue -- NOT Resolved

Thanks man. Yeah, so halfway on my fun mountain drive this morning, somewhere along the way before I ran into some traffic (lots of bicyclists), the system stopped working again. You can really tell when you slow down.

Back to the shop to figure out what's wrong :/​

 

The burnt fuse disturbs me. In all my car audio days over 35 years when there was a burnt fuse someone wired an accessory incorrectly, blown the fuse then rewired correctly , or touched ground with a live wire.

Also I would NEVER up rate a fuse. The controller wouldn't take much to keep it active. Upping the fuse could lead to electrical issues BECAUSE the fuse is there to stop a wire burning / hence your car.

IMO revert it back immediately to 10 amps.

Forza knows his unit and im not sure if a short could have damaged his unit.

Im going to say you have a damaged unit and that is the source of your problem.

And not to be too negative at best it is the Forza because if there was a wrong wire / ground something on the fuse the car ) could be toast I hope not but ive seen this before unfortunately.

With the audio controls light still on , as I said I had this and the issue disappeared once my battery was replaced.

 

I'd say you're right on this one. The installer screwed up and has damaged the unit and now are looking to blame everything else but themselves. Typical. You shouldn't need to up the size of the fuse. That's crazy.

PS. Secret, the tech here is calling me soon with all the details on mine so I'll pm you soon on it. I can't see it being a problem with the car itself - I would be in how they've wired it up or placed the control unit in a bad spot and fried something.

 

A couple new updates on the Pista.

Dashcam Install -- Successful!

• I took some time today to get a dashcam installed on the Pista at a renown audio shop in our area.
• We installed:
  • Thinkware U1000 4K dashcam with 2K rear dashcam
  • Blackvue B-124X Ultra Battery Backup -- This ensures no drain on the system when the car is off. It also carries a 16h runtime after you shut off the car and recharges itself in 40m from 0%.
• Battery Install Location: Under the dash near the passenger knee pad region. There is a clean metal bracket on NON-JBL optioned cars that typically houses the JBL amp. We installed it onto that bracket as it appears to be meant to handle the weight and heat of an amp.
  • The battery is connected via cigarette plug to female cigarette socket that's fuse taped to an accessory fuse under the dash
• Front Camera Location: Installed just right of the rear view mirror's base and all the way up against headliner. Since the wires come out the left side the system, you can jam it all the way up there
• Rear Camera Location: Installed at the center of the rear window at the top.
  • This gives the best camera view of the road and looks the cleanest from outside of the car
  • While driving, it does present a minor obstruction, but the system is so small that you can see around it easily
  • The alternate position was at the bottom center of the window to aid in driver visibility of the rear view. The slight advantage in visibility here comes with some tradeoffs that I decided weren't for me:
    1. Because the Pista is a low car, when standing outside the car, the bottom location is easily visible and looks like of cheap
    2. Defeats the purpose of having the rear camera as all it does is either look at the sky or the engine bay
• Impressions: I have both the Blackvue DR900S-2Ch 4K system in our family car, and I have to say that the Thinkware system is MUCH smaller than it looks in photos. The system worked like a charm right away, and the app is very easy to use and set up. Video quality is great from my drive back from the shop. I'll share more here as I get back on the road.
• Bad news: While on my drive back, the nearly 4 additional hours spent trying to troubleshoot and re-check the Forza exhaust controller install ended up still resulting in another blown fuse. The system started up well (worked) as it always does when I leave a shop, then failed again on the road. Details below.

Forza Controller Update -- Not Resolved

1. Despite Forza's valiant efforts to try to help me resolve this issue, the problem still exists.
   • I decided to take the car to another shop to double check the dealership's work. As mentioned above, I took it to a renown audio shop in my area that I've used for decades. They've been around longer than that and have done countless exotics over the years. Recently did some custom work on two Speciale Apertas.
   • Together we inspected everything we could without getting the car on a lift to look at the valves. We looked for any nicks or damage along the wire and found none. Also confirmed that the Ferrari tech did in fact pull the power cables through an appropriate grommet just over the drivers side (US) left shoulder properly, despite my concerns.
   • We swapped out the power connector at the controller unit from the spades to the high power rated molex connector to ensure good contact.
   • We also replaced the logic board with a new one from Steve (thank you so much for sending this).
   • The system worked wonderfully when I started it up (as it always does). After a 30 min drive back to my home, it failed after exiting the freeway.
2. At this point, I'm assuming there may be something wrong with the valves causing a higher load or something when they're trying to open.
3. As much as I hate writing something like this up, I want to make sure people know what they're getting into and that they have the bandwidth to monitor the install if needed. I don't think this is as easy a system to install in comparison to Steve's other systems (like the one I had on the 458 Speciale). While there may be something wrong with the install, there are improvements that can be made to the design of it to help prevent concerns with the things I was asked to troubleshoot.
4. I think for me, this process has honestly burned too much money to do the work and even more countless hours/days away from family, work, and other important things. It sucks, and I don't feel really great about how much it's occupied my time.
5. I plan to order a different system and swap the systems out in one go at the dealer. Wish it worked out.

Alignment Issue -- Resolved!

• Ok, let's end on a high note: the alignment issue with the wacky SAI looked like a measurement error by the tech or the dealership alignment rack is out of calibration
• I took the car last week to a reputable BMW/Porsche shop that I used to use when I was tracking M3s and GT3s. The owner is a long time and trusted friend
• We threw the car on the rack and got some measurements. Details below of the dealer measured values v. shop. SAI looks normal. Rear toe isn't quite right, but at least even, and the front caster looks a little off.

Image Unavailable, Please Login ​

 

Did you relocate the Forza unit outside of the hot engine bay and put alongside the ECU? Or is it still in the engine bay?

My Forza unit has been working flawlessly.... Master tech here maintains the Forza unit must be well away from heat source and located alongside the ECU as per my PM previously sent. He has also expressed concerns with your 10 amp fuse blowing and says it should not be up rated to 15 amp. The general view is the original install which has led to fuses blowing may have created issues elsewhere.

 

Agreed regarding heat. I'm not sure that's the only root cause though as the location is well away from any heat at this point with the new board. Short of installing it in the passenger compartment, I think the issues maybe at the additional set of provided valves.

Anyway, I respect what Forza is trying to accomplish for its customers, providing a more affordable system with accessible support/customer care. In this case though, I've lost nearly half the cost of a Klein muffler trying to troubleshoot this [not including time lost as well as the unhappy 250 of my first 350 miles being spent troubleshooting this issue]. The installer/tech did follow the exact instructions provided including the original recommended installation location for the module after close personal inspection. Like I said before, I'm sure it works as evidenced by your experience, but, in my opinion, a good experience doesn't outweigh the fact that it simply does not work in my car, which is brand spanking new.

I've suggested small improvements to Forza to avoid asking future customers to troubleshoot things like nicks in wires etc. They are easy and cheap changes to make. I'm hoping they will also figure out what happened and ultimately improve the installation instructions provided to help future customers avoid the issues I've faced. I'm sure it could very well be an installation issue, but I've put way more than my fair share of time and money into trying to make this work. If a Ferrari tech has trouble figuring out the install, something isn't right.

 

Tbh i think you're chasing your tail changing the controller. You've already done the hard yards with the install on the Forza unit so unless Crapisto has somehow managed to do away with using a set of dummy valves I can't see what you stand to achieve by changing it at this stage. My thoughts are that if there is doubt to whether one of or both of the valves have been damaged in the shorting out which blew the fuse then surely it would be cheaper replacing those than starting from scratch. Are you able to confirm from Crapisto if they are still using the dummy valves? This would be the deciding factor for me personally. I'm aware that Forza use the same brand valves as what Ferrari use to trick the system so its not as if you are talking some aftermarket branded valve which may not be up to scratch. So if the Forza control unit is now renewed then there really is only the valves now that need qualifying - that is assuming the wiring is correct everywhere and you have the control unit located correctly along with the dummy valve positions. Essentially, the fact the Forza Pista unit is functioning without fault on many other Pista's (inc my own) has also got to be telling you and the fitter something.

 

I can really understand your frustration with regards to the valve control unit. Talk to car audio gurus and they will tell you all their problems in trouble shooting.

All your comments are valid but I am still not comfortable about one thing and that's the fuse being uprated. Please do yourself a favour put the original 10 amp back. Logic states if you have disconnected the valve controller the fuse shouldn't burn. BUT if she does mate something is wrong with that line FULL STOP.

It needs to be traced. You can take my advice or ignore it. Its up to you but I have seen things like this before. Big problems like this have to be broken down one at a time. Unfortunately unless you have the ability to do it yourself its a huge expense.

 

Unfortunately the FU in the initial instal has created a knock on effect and has now left a residual fault somewhere in that circuit so it needs to be chased down using the process of elimination.
The easy thing now is to blame the product and ive seen this happen so many times over the course of my career its not funny. Installing one of the controllers does require time to get it all right the first time around as explained by the master tech here. You may know him Mandalay as they use him aust wide for all the workshops techs where they run into issues which need to be unravelled. Unfortunately few techs would possess the level of skill to deal with certain things and not every tech is a genius even though they have received a degree of training which allows them to work on the car for general types of service work. To not know that these types of electronics - components which have not been specifically designed to operate in heated environments - should always be located well away from heat sources, is a bit of a worry im afraid to say.
The vehicle’s ECU is also not in the engine bay for obvious reasons so why the fitter ever put the Forza controller in there in the first place is enough said in itself. I’ve dealt with mechanics all my life - still do - and i can tell you there arent too many ive come across who i would trust for certain jobs even though they mean well and think they are up to it. Usually when they FU they always blame the parts or the tools and when the are given the chance to repeat the same job using new parts to replace the ones theyve Fkd up rarely repeat the same mistake they made and from there they excuse themselves by blaming the previous parts in bid to preserve their credibility which really needs calling out so they can improve themselves. Sadly this doesnt happen to often and they get off scott free at someone elses expense. This looks to me to be one of those cases.

 

Wish I could agree that I was chasing my tail, but, like I said, I've spent too much time/money/miles on this. It's not a simple install, but if people have the technical capability and/or time, then the value is definitely there. As I said, I've used the Forza system on my Speciale for nearly 5 years without issue, so I completely respect what Forza is trying to accomplish for owners out there. This system is just not for me.

The Capristo system has no extra valves, no vacuum lines, no fuse taps, etc. It is just a piggy back off the OEM harness connections for the valves; 4 connectors, 2 per valve. One goes to the valve's connector and the other goes to the car's harness. It draws power from there. It looks pretty straight forward, but who know's may be there will be other unknown issues.

I have no doubts that the system works. It just hasn't worked for me.

Thanks and definitely had your words in mind as we were looking through the system for the fault. The fuse blew again while the system was connected. I would be very worried if I blew an OEM fuse w/o it connected. The failure is on the fuse that's connected to a closed system (the valve controller). The fuse tap carrying the original fuse is not blown. I will leave the valve controller fuse blown and therefore OFF until the system is removed.

 

I believe I am being fair to Forza in my review. Again, I have shared my thoughts that there are improvements to the instructions, the kit, and the design that could help avoid errors/issues in the installation. The design and/or installation appears too sensitive to minor variance. Or, this is a new issue that Forza has never seen before. Since Forza does not have a Pista, they cannot replicate the issue other than to use my car as an analysis tool to help solve it. I prefer not to use my car for engineering development any further.

Anyway, it might be good for me to clarify a couple points so those reading along can understand what's fact vs. opinion.

1. The Ferrari tech installed the system exactly where Forza's installation manual recommended [Page 7 of 11 in case anyone is curious]. They went by the manufacturers instructions, not by their own assumptions. While you may be right regarding installation location, Forza did not correct that in their instructions. This is not a "FU in the initial install" when it comes to the location.
2. While it is easy to make assumptions that all technicians behave the same when making mistakes, this specific Ferrari technician would easily throw my car back on the rack to help me resolve it if they knew where to look next. As I said, both them and the audio shop spent a considerable amount of time on the car based on feedback from Forza. Each time, the system functioned again with a fresh fuse but failed on the road. It's ME that is tired of going back and forth and using my car as test bed for this issue. Is it crazy to think that, for some people, this isn't what to expect from an aftermarket component for a high end supercar?

I've kept most of my opinions to myself as they are irrelevant to other people interested in an exhaust controller. I think it's best for Forza that we move on, as most of the statements you've made in the post above are speculative.

I am of the belief that both Forza and the original installer had my best interests in mind, but things just aren't working out.

Let's leave it at that.

 

Thats all cool by me and sorry to hear youve had so much drama. Btw what is the exact differences component wise between the Forza and capisto set up? Do they both use another set of valves to piggy back the existing valves on the car? I didnt quite understand your description.
Re Forzas instructions - if they say to put it in the engine bay then that definitely goes against the recommendations of the master tech here so i would agree certain ammendments to the instructions need to be made. I was to the understanding that the tech here had gone over in detail with steve - even on the phone - what was to go where and why. My car was used as the guinea pig and was in the shop for a week while everything was investigated and photos and other notes were taken for Steve to ensure those who followed got everything right. Im not sure why things changed since at Steves end as it was a costly process labor wise to get everything right. Anyway its a shame to hear you had a lot of greif and look forward to hearing all the differences between what is supplied between Steves and the Capistro system. Pm if you wish. Regards SF.

 

Secret
Edit to my last post - now back in office on computer. I can see what you mean now re the recommended location of the control unit. Not sure why Steve didn't follow the techs recommendation that the control unit be placed above the cross-member in upper LH rear wheel arch which is close to where the main ECU is also located. This requires the removal of the wheel and inner gaurd as explained in my PM so maybe Steve was looking to make the job easier/shorter. Either way the engine bay is not the place for it and the tech was very specific about that. The tech here advised now he's gone through the installation process on mine he would now be able to install a Forza unit start to finish by morning tea time. Anyway. going by your description the Capistro system has certainly simplified the install by doing away with the second set of valves completely, so there is definitely less messing about for sure! Am also keen to hear how you make out with the new install, and the muffler, so keep me posted thanks. Again very sorry to hear about your inconveniences and hope all works out although the blowing fuse doesn't sound good.

PS please pm me the price differences between the two units if you don't mind.