Lewis Hamilton discussion thread

Ronnie was clearly the faster of the 2, but that Lotus would never be that fast if it wasn't for Mario work and development, because Ronnie sucked at it.

 

you are right. in 78 Andretti got the new car first and dialed it in... Peterson was just as fast if not faster sometime.. but Andretti and the mechanics would "tweak" his car where as Peterson would drive it as Chapman spec'd it out.... Andretti admits today that he balanced the car differently to suit his style, like he did dirt track cars...

 

...and it has already been the same in 1973: Ronnie was faster than Emerson, but without Emerson defining the 72's set-up, Ronnie would have been nowhere...
Actually, Ronnie had no analytic feeling for the car's behavior: Chapman once said that you could change all the basic set-ups of the car, things that must have made a huge difference on the car's behavior, but Ronnie would instinctively compensate and turn up with more or less the same lap times; and when asked: "what difference does this - or that - make?", he answered: "What? I didn't fell any difference at all". At the end of a testing day, he would get completly lost in nowhere land; then came the Qualis, and the only sensible thing remaining for the team to do was to take the set-up from Emerson's 72, which he has thoroughly narrowed down, put these on Ronnie's car...and then Ronnie was Pole. Emerson was not amused, although he remained very good friend with Ronnie...

Rgds

 

As I recall Mario applied his Indycar knowledge to set-up, addressing arcane issues such as tire stagger. Mario had enormous respect and fondness for Ronnie(along with another Swedish teammate, the late Gunnar Nilsson). It is the cruelest of ironies that Mario clinched the WDC at the race where Ronnie ultimately lost his life. RIP Ronnie, one of the greats.

 

Ironic isn't it? Refusing to stop talking about politics by complaining about a person that can't stop talking about politics. Some folks perhaps just see too much of themselves in the object of their dissension?

 

You clearly like making obnoxious assumptions about people. I am ranked in the 99th percentile at my local karting track and can hold my own against the pros there. Neither my intelligence, nor my education helped me prepare for and achieve that, but by all means, continue to act like Hamilton and the rest of the grid could have come up with a cure for cancer if only they went into oncology instead of racing. Medical school is intellectually rigorous, not racing, and anyone who thinks racing is intellectually rigorous has incredibly low standards for what constitutes intellectual rigor.

 

OK - I'll bite. Karting - wow that makes you an expert. and you are in the 99th percentile well done you. may I ask what track and type of Kart?

have you driven a single seater open wheel car with slicks in an actual race? I have, and its hard. Mentally and physical all at the same time. I never said that they could cure cancer - but you are dismissing any driver as not having any intellect at all. and I'm saying BS on that. Or perhaps you track your Ferrari? and that shows how easy F-1 is?

 

Look, I never drove a supercar, nor single seaters, had a few kart races for fun, did some 360º on wet track, broke a wheel and crashed out, lolo, so i guess i suck at it...but still, elton sucks, and yes, he's an idiot!

 

I said the average IQ is within the normal range. I NEVER said they have no intellect at all and I NEVER said F1 is easy. I greatly respect the physical demands and mental FORTITUDE required, not intellect.

And good job knocking karting. My local track runs 9 horsepower Hondas that go 60 mph and I’ve driven 100 mph at Limerock in a kart.

 

I too run a Kart - I run a 14Hp LO206 Super stock, at Atlanta Motorsports park. I think top is about 70 is.. .depending on gears. It's a shame you don't see the intellect needed to race.

but if we are going to trade racing props... I've run a shifter at 98 at AMP, and done a sub 1min... pulling 2Getc... Run a Formula Renault at Monza in excess of 295KPH... about 180 ish... and run a Ferrari there as well at well over 170.... along with lots of other race cars over the years...you must be a natural talent because I have to think hard when driving.

 

I don’t think he’s an idiot. I just think he’s overrated. If I ran an F1 team....and thank God I have not been so cursed....there are at least half a dozen drivers I’d rather have in the seat. Mere statistics do not determine greatness in my book.

Moss
Lauda
Senna
Andretti
Stewart
Clark


....for starters

 

Great list - but 4 are dead... the rest kind of old... to be competitive today.

I think Hamilton is a very good driver - he's worked hard to get where he is. I don't like his personal life choices ... they are not for me, but I do give him credit that on the whole he tries to be a "nice guy" .... Not having walked a mile in his shoes hard to really criticize... his choice to bring BLM into F-1 ... has its risk when that is not what you are known for.... on the whole He's had the best car and made the most out of it.... that is what he's supposed to do.

 

then you know how hard it is to race a kart ... then multiply that by 1000... and you get F-1. or Run a Shifter Kart wide open, and quadruple that... Hamilton may do idiotic things to you... but He's hardly an idiot....

 

I made a list from an historical perspective. I didn’t think it would be necessary to explain that.

 

was not ... was just making a comment for fun.... it would be interesting to see Moss in a modern Mercedes.. while he was in a fit state to drive it.... and Jim Clark too.. my Dad used to wonder how he would have done with a car like the 72 or even 79... let alone a modern car. ... but what would be even more interesting is to put Hamilton into Moss's old Lotus - and let him have a go... and see if he could match Moss's times... that is still a possibility. I don't know if Mercedes would let any of their heritage cars be used in anger that way.... but it would be cool to see how close a modern driver would come to competitive times in the era.

 

I can’t stress enough how much I respect the physical and mental demands of the sport, but there’s a completely different skill set that is more primal than intellectual. Having the reaction time and knowing when to attack and when to defend is rooted in our basest instincts.

 

Great Trifecta!

 

I think we are just not on the same page... and that is ok. I respect Hamilton while I don't always like what he does from a personal perspective. I think he's too Hollywood etc... its not my idea of a Racing Driver ... but that is because I came up with people like Stewart and Lauda - who are my ideals.... however Just because Hamilton chooses to live his personal life like a rapper... who am I to say that is wrong or stupid? ... in the end he's the best right now... and this too will end. Having met the guy... and seeing him live and in person, he's not an idiot... far from it.

 

There have been a lot of years where the competition has only been in one team... 84 is a perfect example... Lauda the old hand and Prost the young charger... it was a great season... to see age and experience overcome youth and energy... but Lauda had some luck as well. Same with Senna and Prost in 88.

 

He isn't like me and I don't like him for that reason.

I don't like him therefore his driving sucks.

He will never be better than the people I can relate to back in the day. They could drive! Not him.

* Wins Championship 1*

Repeat Above

* Wins Championship 2*

Repeat...

 

Just because we don't think he's a GOAT doesn't automatically translate to thinking he sucks. In fact almost everyone here that doesn't like him, admits he's pretty damn good. That's pretty well established.

Reasons he's not liked...well the video at the start of this thread is a pretty good synopsis, even if that's just his actions in recent times.

I don't like his attitude, the way he whinges, his narcissistic ways, when he finally says what's on his mind and gets backlash for it he backpedals IMMEDIATELY (even when he says something I don't agree with...just stand for your opinion!), his fans are mostly ****s. That's the short list anyways.

Do I think he sucks? No. Clearly he's a rather good driver. His championships in the hybrid have been won in a car with NO competition. I take no argument on this. Ferrari had a decent car 2017-18, but it was never clearly the fastest. Certain tracks suited the Ferrari well but never in a dominant fashion. So no, Mercedes never had true competition. How they managed that is another discussion entirely. Fact of the matter is, driving without competition = driving without pressure = can afford mistakes, can afford to play cautious and so on.

The default argument for the above is of course that I am a hater and think he sucks.

 

Bas its not at you!

I'm not a big fan of his attitude and some of his demeanor either. But the **** he gets from some people here is just funny. Don't forget his generation, which is mine, is filled with snowflakes.

He is arguably one of the best drivers in F1 history. I say arguable because it is. He had a better car. His personality may not be loved. Competition may not be as close. But he performs just about week in and week out with leading results.

I know you are here in this side of the forum actively. Some of those posts when you read them make you laugh. The shot they say about a 6x champion from the couch is just stellar. Many do still say he sucks lol.

 

Don't worry I know it wasn't aimed at me in particular, neither was my post

As it happens I'm from your/Lewis generation also. What we see here is mild...compare it to twitter/insta read the comments there (from both sides might I add!). And it isn't just related to Lewis...When you read Twitter/Insta comments about any top driver (max/lewis/leclerc/vettel/ric) they are utterly cringe worthy. Fan accounts, hate accounts...not a remotely biased view out there. You can't give any driver criticism whatsoever or you'll have his legion of fans on you (or a driver you're defending gets backed up with insane fan accounts...which is just as bad!).


Which is part of the reason why I get annoyed with certain accounts here...we do have a nice area on the web where views even towards rival drivers/teams are ''allowed''. Over the last 7 or so years here there have been a few that try to spoil the party with insane bias, militant-like love for a certain driver (and it really is the one that seems to attract utter crazies). Sadly by the time such accounts are finally banned a few others have been taken along before him...good guys.

So my point is simple, as per my previous post: Those that don't call Lewis a GOAT don't automatically say he's a bad driver. Those that (rightfully) say that the championships could also have been won by lesser drivers in that same Mercedes, are correct. Lewis has 6 titles, Alonso 2. I don't think Lewis is 3x better driver than Alonso, or even the better driver.

I was listening to Ross Brawn podcast the other day and he noted about Schumacher that none (except the 2004) of the titles where exactly easily won...they often had teams pushing them, and Schumacher won races he shouldn't have won. So here's my point regarding Lewis/Mercedes: Which races did he win since 2014 that he shouldn't have won? Where HE made the difference? And that's why it's so hard to quantify how good Lewis really is or isn't, because it's pretty hard to find such races. If we go back to pre-2014 when he had some years in an average car...and suddenly he didn't look as amazing and untouchable as he is perceived at the moment.

And that is what the ''detractors'' (these days simply people saying Lewis isn't a GOAT) are arguing against, and perhaps has taken a bit nasty turn over the last few years.

 

That downhill braking hairpin with the uphill exit is a witch at AMP!

 

Love the Kart, great livery..and the right number of course!