458 Spider, a great ride that comes to an end!

Hi guys!

After a lot of thinking and reflecting.... I will sell my 458. It’s a great car and the best I’ve ever owned but after many drives I’ve come to realize that unfortunately I need more car...

Its not as fast as I need it to be, the brakes are not as strong as I want them to be and it doesn’t turn as I want it to turn. I will miss this glorious engine sound (but it’s like saying the best sex is when you moan a lot... well it depends doesn’t it Ahahah).
Actually to the people in the fence this engine is so loud that after a drive with the Ferrari group I go home with a headache... that’s how loud it is!
Still just for the sake of comparison no V8 sounds like a V12, an FF was in front of me and compared to mine it was much louder. I can’t imagine a decat 812...

I got used to the scuttle shake in the chassis it’s ok but the vibration in the steering wheel just pisses me off. No idiot at Ferrari noticed this crap during testing?!

In the end of September when the good weather season is over I will sell it.
The replacement candidates followed this analogy:

Porsche GT3/2 RS 991.2
Great cars but they all look the same. Not much difference between a regular 911 and all the others. After owning a TS I’m looking for something special.

Mclaren 720s Spider
Great car and technology, super fast. But reliability and potential problems too high of a risk for me. Also buying one for 290k and after two years sell it (if anyone buys it) for 200k it’s a bit crazy.
I drove a test drive car with 500km and two months and it had paint problems, uneven gaps, strange noises in the engine...

Ferrari Pista(chio)
My favorite and probably the one I will take!
OK wife would prefer a spider but she said she understood if I went with it so I’m happy

Ferrari F8 Spider
Beautiful car as well, but waiting until April 2022 it’s just not possible. Will test drive a spider and if it doesn’t shake like a mule and there’s nice models available will think about it.

What do you guys think of my reasoning? Thank you all for the inputs!

 

Fwiw a mate of mine bailed on his Pista spider as couldn't stand the flex....says it's unbearable. Is keeping his Pista coupe now - says is infinitely better. That's coming from an owner of both coupe and spider and he owns plenty of cars and drives them very hard. Can't see F8 spider being any more rigid than a Pista Spider.. That said if you've lived with 458 as long as you have I'd say you should be able to tolerate more deficiencies than just poor torsional rigidity. So that would open up a wide choice. The only thing that could create a problem is getting behind the wheel of a current GT Porsche. I'd also look at a 600lt if you wanted a spider. Its a great car.

PS Id totally disagree with Il co on the .2 3rs. Amazing machine. May not have the thrust of the Pista but makes up for it in other ways. It depends upon where you go and how you drive. Speed and accel isnt everything, not that a .23rs is slow by any stretch. And to say a 2rs has lag is just ridiculous. Imo it feels more electric than the Pista. 2rs is savage in throttle response and endless linearity.....crazy responsive.

 

Right off the bat, I will say forget the GT3RS. One of your dislikes is the lack of speed. The GT3RS is not faster and it does not feel faster. Better brakes and better balance yes, but it is not as special.

GT2RS is a good option. Very different to the GT3RS. Many seem to think that a GT2RS is like a GT3RS with a turbo - it isn't. It's a completely different car and it feels it. More compliant yet more grip and control. It's like they left the best bit on the table for the GT2RS and just gave the GT3RS very stiff suspension to make it feel exciting.
I personally think it is too stiff and nervous hence why it is for sale. Never connected with the GT3RS. Too stiff for what it actually offers, stupidly noisy and overall not that great for the road. The 2 is just on a different level and much more similar to a Pista for all the right reasons.

F8 Spider. Great blend of excitement and comfort. The Pista engine is a remarkable thing to pedal along. It is not a V12 but it feels special. As a Spider it is nothing like your 458. No rattles and shakes, no feeling of disconnect. It just works.
That being said, one thing and that goes for the Pista as well. Ferrari don't do brakes as well as Porsche, that's just the reality of it. You know this is a big deal for me, hence my adventures with CCST rotors, Pagid pads, fluids and brake lines. The best would of course be to upgrade it all, but you can go half way and start by upgrading the simple things. HEL lines, fluid and Pagid RSL1 pads. Then once your rotors are done, switch to CCST.
Looks like GPF delete is in the pipeline, so there's an opportunity to get some sound back. Like with a decatted Pista on Novi boxes, that's not half bad.

Pista. It is an F8 plus 10% imo. That is not meant as in lacking or "just 10%". But adding to something that is already that good is hard, so 10% is significant. Sound wise a decatted Pista with Novi boxes should more than satisfy you. Also, you're in Switzerland, wouldn't they, uh, lynch you in front of town hall for driving that? Oh well.

Regarding the Pista Spider flex. I cannot recognize that anywhere. Is it a bit softer than the Pista? Yes, but it is VERY minute. I don't step from a Challenge car into the Pista Spider and think, woah, this is all over the place - because it is not. Not sure what that is about, but I totally disagree on that one. Plenty of various back to back runs to know it too, so it's not for a lack of trying.

720S. Hmmm. My total time with them is limited to around 2000 km. To me it just doesn't quite work. Others really like them, and it is of course very subjective.
But a few things I find don't work for me.
Looks. I think it is butt ugly. No way around it. I just do not gel well with McLaren design in general.
Lag. I cannot get used to the turbo lag. Ferrari has all but killed it with the Pista engine, so why so much lag on the 720S engine? Quick note. This is abit of a thing on the GT2RS, but not as bad.
Chassis. For some reason, the McLaren CF tub feels a bid "dead" and disconnected for me. It is hard to describe, but I don't get as much input back to my butt as I would like.
The interior is a bit meh, but of course that's just a matter of personal preference so like the looks, not really for or against in general, just a personal thing.

You have some driving ahead of you it seems. Good luck my friend, hope you find what you are looking for.

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FWIW my 2015 458 spider had a lot more shake and shimmy than my current 2013.

go get a 720s and pocket the difference from a F8 or Pista. Beats them all in what you prioritize.

 

Ferrari's have a bad rep for scuttle shake. My mate was shocked how bad it was in the Pista spider......was really shocked for a 2020 car to still have such poor rigidity.....even with the roof closed. He was clearly disappointed having to sell it but he has his limits in what he is prepared to put up with. I agree the 720 is a bargain - has the performance. Some have found reliability has been questionable but many have found it reliable too. It ticks a lot of boxes and has a lot of wow in the public arena. Pista is a great Ferrari and I love mine, and is reliable so far, but $ for $ its hard to argue the 720 isn't a bargain and will do everything the Pista can. OP I wouldn't underestimate it. It all comes down to your budget and what you're prepared to spend.

PS Dusty your early spider being better may be a sign its seen less track work. These spiders can lose further rigidity from doing circuit work apparently.

 

Thanks guys for all your comments!
Really helpful!

shadow and dustman, Pista brakes can get tired/spongy or so far they never lost performance even after an hour of spirited driving/track?

and regarding the Mac...very afraid to save 150k compared to the others but spend the same or more in garage bills. Sure they have warranty but I’ve heard so many stories of it not covering everything and so on. Dustman, so far your 720 spider had no issues or headaches?

 

FWIW, last night I drove for a few hours a 2020 Huracan Spyder Evo. I am not a lambo type guy. A month ago I wrote my review of my test drive of the F8 here and my personal feelings of the car and the sadness I left the dealer with. I wanted to love that car but will not touch it as it left me wanting a lot more of what I want....exciting and thrilling emotion. The F8 did not have it for me.
Now, last night, this close friend of mine came over with his new Lamborghini, and he tossed me the keys and said lets go for a nice tour. I drove for a couple of hours, top down, which I never had owned a convertible, and nor did I ever entertain owning a convertible. This car left me with an impression of just WOW. It was addictive, thrilling and orgasmic the sound this car made. I was so impressed that I never looked or gave a chance to this type of car. This car could easily replace my 2015 Italia as it struck all the emotions of my Ferrari and then some. I did not notice any instability of the spyder chassis. I woke up this morning looking at Lamborghini websites and see what they had for inventory. I cannot get over how impressive this car was.
Maybe you should add this to your shopping list.

 

There's no real difference over time. I have been beating the stock brakes for 2-3 hours on both the
488 and Pista in A/B testing on track. Once hot they stay fairly consistent. The lack of modulation is just how stock Ferrari brakes are, and the rubber lines create an overall spongyness.
This goes for my 488 as well as my Pista. There is a slight improvement with better fluid, but you cannot combat the poor brake modulation and spongyness without making a few changes.

As per usual, you will be burning through pads like there is no tomorrow if you run hard and stick with OE pads.

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I will ask for your help on how to have proper brakes when I have the Pista! Thank you!

 

Any time

So you settled on a Pista?

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It’s the one the closest to my heart but the one I want it’s not so easy to find eheh I’m a bit picky with the options hence if the F8 spider isn’t shaking like crazy it’s also an option.

 

Pista brakes remind me of how Porsche's first offering of PCCB in the 997c2s was in the way they bite hard on initial take up but lack modulation thereafter. They are very strong brakes though but have nowhere near the standard of feel of a current GT Porsche. Ferrari is way back on a lot of things. Doesn't mean its a bad car or anything but its clearly not at Porsche's stage of development on certain things. Maybe Il co's Pista brake package modulates better than stock and if it does that just further proves Ferrari didn't put in enough work to provide the standard of modulation which can be achieved if the work is put in. This is the difference between weissach and maranello. Both great cars, just one puts more work in to get it spot on for the driver. PS my brakes have never gone mushy or faded in Pista. Not sure what these other guys problems are. Maybe the brakes need a bleed or its in how they are using the equipment bc none of my mates with Pista's have had that issue and they push hard. Sure they replace pads but no other issues.
Pista is in general a very solid machine but it definitely needs some honing on the brakes and throttle and some better seats wouldn't go astray.

 

Yes... don’t get me started about super mega lazy Ferrari...
Porsche cabrios also don’t have carbon chassis but apparently they don’t shake anything!! What?!

 

Yup. you got it right on both counts. Ferrari is still good though but the spiders def lack torsional rigidity and not to be compared with the Porsche cab or the Mac spider etc.

 

Yes just sad, sad the we the users keep getting on with this crap and no one complains...
But the pistachio/F8 are so sexy though....

 

This is true. Very sexy! Pista is generally awesome but some things should have been better for the money. It hauls serious ass though and looks good. No argument there. And it does ride well. I'm keeping mine. I think it's one of the better Ferrari's to own. And you can hear it coming. It doesnt have the 9000 rpm howl of the atmo but you may not notice as you'll be too busy restraining the beast and keeping it pointed in the right direction.

 

I agree it’s quite special and probably the lightest modern Ferrari ever (exclude the Enzo’s etc and the Iconas). From here on all porkers, fast sure but porkers!

 

This. The car is so epic over a 488 or F8 or Pista.

 

It's stronger suit would be the atmo sound but that's where it starts and finishes. And it's not a Ferrari. So that cancels out any sound advantage!

 

I confess that I never drove a lambo, for me they were always arrival/poser cars not really Motorsport (in this Porsche is king!/Ferrari is more F1) level.

But probably if I were to try one I would go crazy... let’s now forget that hey haul some serious ass in the Nürburgring! I’m afraid to like them!

 

The package I use get the modulation back and gives Porsche iron rotors a run for their money. I'm not complaining of mushyness, but just the normal spongyness brakes with rubber lines suffer from. Porsche just uses better lines on the GT cars and Ferrari uses the same type of rubber line you will find on a diesel Alfa.

The problem is that Ferrari does not "need" to change anything. They have a large customer base who don't track and don't care. They see that there are Brembo CCM brakes on it, and thus everything's peachy. Unfortunately Ferrari and Brembo fail to mention how old this technology is and why get rid of easy money? Imagine how many fewer brake discs Ferrari would sell if the discs lasted much longer and could be refurbished four times. That's ****ting in your own back yard when you have people not caring getting rid of that income.

The current Porsche ceramic discs are similar to the CCST, but a type that is a bit cheaper and easier to manufacture. But from a performance perspective, they are fairly close to CCST. While the CCST disc is definitely a nice addition, you can also get pretty far with better pads. Unfortunately Ferrari now uses a caliper and pad combination that is somewhat unique. This means you don't have a ton of options like you do with the 458 calipers which uses the old school classic GT6 and GT4 calipers. But still, you can get Pagid RSC1 pads and now Pagid offer RSL1 pads as well, rather than RSC2. So there are ways to get the braking performance up to snuff. There is the age old question about not getting pad wear indicators with Pagid pads and thus many get uneasy about them, but I'm currently looking into a solution which means that you can just use Porsche pad wear indicators. The part that clip into the caliper itself is the exact same, one just comes with a Bosch plug and the other comes with a Fiat plug. So all that one needs is an adapter and it will be completely plug and play. Porsche pad wear indicators are like 20-30 Euro, so not a big deal at all, and when piston gaskets need replacing those can be bought easily as well. So basically Ferrari can take their brake pad "monopoly" to the dump because it is easily circumvented.

 

How tall are you?

 

Just one question. Why not an 812 GTS? Drop top V12. What's not to like?

 

How much do you track your cars? And which cars do you track?
Im 1.70 and the GTS is still a heavy from engine car eheh plus the GTS comes with PF which is sad....

 

The cars tracked is a 488 Spider, a Pista Spider and 981 GT4. Used to track a 991 GT3RS but it is for sale. 1 to 4 times per month during the spring/summer season from April through September.

If 170 you should fit in a Huracan Spider if you go that route. But it is a tiny cabin by any measure.