Opinions on future values: 512BBi, Testarossa, GT3RS

Hi all,

With current economic uncertainty in the stock market and real estate, I’m considering switching some funds into a car, and considering it as a 10-15 year investment.

I have narrowed down to an 81 512BBi, an early (85-86) single mirror Testarossa, and a 2004 Porsche 996 GT3RS.

Not all the same price, Testarossa and 996 very close, 512 about 50% more.

996 is lowest production (600 odd and 140 RHD), 512 (1000 of 2500ish total boxers), and Testarossa a lot, but not many RHD single mirrors. (Unsure of the number, nor the number of RHD Boxers). I am looking at RHD cars.

I assume: Boxer demand steady and likely to decrease (aging enthusiast base) Testarossa and GT3RS demand likely to increase.

I like all these cars equally. Probably a soft spot for the GT3Rs as I like to drive on track. This is not really about the driving however.

In 10-15 years will a Testarossa be worth more than a GT3RS, and will the Boxer still be worth 50% more?

Of course no one really knows, but educated opinions are valued.

(And please no commentary on whether some other asset class is a better investment, that’s boring talk!)

Cheers all,

Earlysport

 

One uneducated datapoint is I doubt any of these cars will go down in value, so there's that.

 

i favor the bbi, but then again i am biased.

have you driven these cars?

 

I think he is just talking about investment. So it sounds like driving is not a factor. My opinion is that non of the cars OP mentioned are investment grade. Sure they will go up in value eventually, but if you account for maintenance, insurance, inflation, and other incidentals, you will reach the conclusion that there is not much yield. If you buy a Testarossa for 100k today and sell it for 200k in 10 years, did you really double your money?
LE and hyper cars are more likely to give you real returns. And even some of those are questionable.

 

all well and good BUT he is asking us about investment potential of cars in his price envelope.
so if these dont pass muster, then what would you suggest he buy between $200-300k?

 

I have a number of cars, and this is not really about driving. I think each offers an interesting driving experience, the GT3RS probably the most interesting to me. This won’t drive my decision though (pun intended!)

May I ask your age? I am wondering if this is a key factor in Boxer future values. I am mid 40’s.

I also note there are more expensive cars that may appreciate more, and happy to hear opinions, however the cars I have narrowed down to are currently within my realm of possibility.

the Boxer is considerably more than the other two, but the one I’m considering needs a lot of work to become a good car.

Cheers,

Earlysport

 

i am 55.
i tend to pick cars based on how much i like to drive them, and how much i like their shape.
if they eventually rise in price, then so much the better.
but i am just trying to help you figure things out.

 

I'd say 996 GT3 RS.

 

I understood that. I was trying to get the point across that those are probably not good investments. OP is considering switching funds into cars. And he clearly states this is not about driving. He asked which one would be a better investment. My opinion is none of them.
The 3 options should not be looked at as investments. Because they are not. Of course, this is only my opinion. And I own a one of the cars on his list. A 86 Testarossa!

 

Testarossa has gone up a lot since 2010, peaked in 15, corrected since and seem bound to be 100-130k car for the near future ( for a car with say 15-20k miles). I don’t see it go much higher then 150-200


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

None of these cars will be legal to drive on a public road in 15 years. Put your money into rental realestate or new build town homes. Or invest in a autonomous ride company. Old cars are going to die sooner then you think.

 

A) I don't think they increase enough to be an investment. There is better no risk investments for the same money. B) outside of right hand drive countries, nobody wants a RHD car.

 

I dont think any of those will make a great investment. 512 is the closest as it will continue to appreciate. But if you really want an investment buy a first gen Tesla roadster

 

The average age of vehicles on Australian roads, where I live, is 8 years. I'd suspect similar in the USA. Do you think that folks buying a new petrol car today, or in 5 years, won't be able to drive it 10 years on? I think you're being pessimistic.

Let's be real. In 15 years there is no doubt you will be able to buy a personal drone. Who on earth will want to drive anywhere in an overweight inefficient electric car? The roads will be left for enthusiasts, driving their relics for enjoyment because an Uber will fly you when you really need to get somewhere.

The point that seems to be missed is that no Ferrari is bought for practical value. Almost any other car is cheaper, more space effective, and more reliable and cheaper to run. People buy Ferrari's because they're fun. I don't know how many electric cars you've driven, but they're like an overblown modern turbo car, all torque and no revs. Fun for a few hours for the sheer acceleration, and then boring and lifeless practical appliances.

Enthusiast petrol cars aren't going away anytime soon in my opinion, and in fact I wager that as the roads fill with electric daily drivers in the pre-drone next 10 years the appeal of classic petrol normally aspirated sports cars will in fact increase.

Earlysport

 

Obviously I live in a RHD country - Australia. It's just us, the UK, Japan, and South Africa. Our own smaller but quite passionate market. UK in particular..

Regarding investment, in Australia, where the pandemic has been largely controlled, rental returns have fallen 25%. With uncertain capital gain, and even super low 2.75% interest rates, property investment isn't really a thing right now. Due to the low return, and almost 10% unemployment rate, properties are starting to flood the market. Over supply, poor return, low demand. Capital decline is extremely likely, and the banks are predicting as much as a 30% fall in values. Now who wants to put money into property?

The share market? It's so heavily influenced by private gamblers it's ridiculous. We have seen 10% swings in single days, and it's the norm almost for many stocks. It has nothing to do with the value of the company anymore, or dividends, it's purely speculative and driven by folks gambling their money from the home computer.

What is the smartest investment? Business. But hey I already do that, and my time is poor, and I like cars.

Earlysport

 

What i'd love to hear more of, is what car you'd buy in ten years if you came into some money, or what would you value the highest?

BB512i
Testarossa
996 GT3RS

The more opinions the more accurate the prediction I reckon..

Earlysport

 

In my opinion the BB is the only investment possibility here. TR's.... and 996.... no.

As for driving experience the BB also produces the most unique driving situation... they are a handful in and around town... traffic jams not fun... but out on the open road they are great fun. On track a BB is like a large 308... to a point. over 7-8/10ths its a hand full.

 

For me (and not because it's a Ferrari forum) the Porsche is the less likely to return anything - it may be rare, but it could be that in some time it will just be perceived as a version of a common 911. The 512 is actually (relatively) rare, while the testarossa may become rare because today it's not expensive enough for all examples to be preserved (so that many will disappear over time).
The 996 GT3RS may end up considered like a BMW M3 E30, or a Lancia Delta HF Integrale, are considered today - certainly valued compared to the regular models, but not really anything to be excited about in terms of investment returns.

 

I have a 512 BB for sale..........

 

Despite being a Ferrari owner, of those three I would bet on the GT3 RS. It is barely improved on the standard 996 GT3 but barely means a lot in Porsche world, look at the 993 Turbo S and so on. None of us, least of all me, know the answer of course.

It has always been a mystery to me why BBs, after a jump 10 or so years ago, never achieved Daytona levels and are mainly below Dino levels. Meanwhile I own a F512M and would reckon on that as a good bet - having declared an interest. It has a lighter and more powerful engine and bespoked suspension, and 501 examples made.

 

BBs have production numbers about double that of the Daytona, and similar to Dino. Dino are older and I suspect at one time they were (relatively) cheap, resulting in many being destroyed without anybody caring - so that today they are actually rarer than BBs.

 

BB is much more fun to drive than a Testarossa. Both expensive to maintain, I'm told. That in my opinion is what holds them back.

Dino is more fun to drive than BB and inexpensive to maintain once sorted.

996 is the ugly sibling to 997

 

Driving the BB is a very classic experience. You need to control the car.. it does not like "wimpy" imputs. Drive one on track, and you will see how much bravery you have... they are quick enough to get you in serious trouble... in the real world, they are fun to drive ( in the south ) in the mid Fall early winter and early spring... any other time they get HOT quick. quick manouvers you can feel the weight up high.. its not bad but there ...side wall flex and lean is the other thing... I mean they lean a lot compared to modern cars... a Testarossa is about the same ... but clutch is way lighter.. and steering is miserable at parking or slow speeds.. and its pretty wide vs. BB. I've driven a couple of them - one for several hundred miles in the mountains and it was fantastic... but once you hit traffic my leg started to quiver with the effort to push the clutch in and out.... that is the part I hate the most... and the heat build up. However the BB is THE supercar of the early 80's and late 70's along with the countach. of all 3 the BB's are the best looking of the group, and look positively dainty by todays cars. I remember the first time I saw one in the flesh - in the wild... I was driving to Limerock Park in 1987 - going to the IMSA race... I was catering for Rob Dyson ... and was in a line of traffic outside Millerton CON... and this low red scream came blowing by me and 4 other cars ... a BB being driven in real anger... god that was amazing!!!!!!!!

996's just have the weepy eye lights that just don't look great, no mater what kind they are. 997's and 991 are far better lookers... and performers.

 

I've only ever driven one Dino, and that was a special bodied one.. so I cant really comment on them... they are beautiful in any respect.

 

I would probably refer to history on the Porsches. 73 911 RS, RSR, ST, 993 GT2, 964 RSR, all $1m cars or thereabouts, and 10x the value of the regular 911’s of the same era.

Unsure if a GT2 or 3 RS will be seen the same way.

Earlysport