Ferrari F8 Tributo

I wonder , the 720s has an actual 4 liter engine. The F8 is still 3.9. Is that the reason for beating it ?

 

No it’s because the 720 has a lot more horsepower than advertised. People have dyno’d them and they are making 700 to the wheels which is more like 800 at the crank. I suspect the 720 is running a lot more boost than the F8.

 

And it (nor the 765) require power robbing GPFs.

 

because of Brexit?

 

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Good question. Since Mclaren are made outside of EU, can they get around this? Surely they will have to be equipped on cars destined to EU dealers?

 

Because they use port fuel injection rather than direct injection. My understanding is that PFI emits fewer particulates.

Summoning JTSE30!

 

Does not matter where the car is made, to be able to register it for street use in EU requires it meet emissions requirements as applicable.

As for McLaren's not requiring GPF, it's pretty simple, Gasoline Direct Inject (GDI) engines such as being used by almost everyone, enjoy more efficient fuel usage but have a problem, unburned particulate remains and the GPFs help clean that up (most particulate production occurs during cold start).

McLaren uses Mutliport (or simply 'Port') Fuel Injection and it actually provides a more complete burn of all fuel resulting in essentially zero particulates, so no GPF required.

deeper detail:

As for McLaren, easy enough, they never elected to go the GDI (gasoline direct injection, more below) route, GPFs deal with particulate production and GDIs are more efficient (miles per gallon) overall but results in decreased efficient breakdown/burning of by-products from the fuel itself.

https://www.mclarenboost.com/content.php?8978-It-s-time-to-admit-direct-fuel-injection-alone-is-a-performance-car-liability-with-port-fuel-injection-coming-to-the-rescue

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/04/everything-need-know-mclarens-3-8-liter-twin-turbo-v8.html

Bottom line, McLaren's base engine block is from a 1989 Nissan F1 car and it was simply less expensive to keep the overall engine design (i.e. McLaren development costs) using port injection which decreases overall fuel economy due to more unburnt fuel (due to lower compression levels) but also increases the burn out of by-products included in the fuel. Net result, no GPF required, how's that for irony!

https://jalopnik.com/this-20-year-old-nissan-is-the-origin-of-all-of-mclaren-1793155467

See the introduction here:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40825-016-0033-3

copied below:

Particles originated from incomplete combustion in internal combustion engines are one of the anthropogenic sources that contribute to atmospheric particles. These particles could contain both non-volatile and volatile components and have direct and indirect influences on climate forcing and visibility, as well as adverse health effects [1–3]. In North America at the moment, light-duty vehicles are typically comprised of gasoline port fuel injection (PFI) vehicles. PFI engines inject fuel into the air intake port where the fuel is vaporized and mixed with the intake air to create a premixed homogeneous fuel mixture before entering the cylinders and undergo combustion. When operating under standard ambient condition, premixed combustion in PFI engines generally produces lower levels of particulate matter (PM) and soot emissions than the emissions from direct injection diesel engines. To meet more stringent greenhouse gas (GHG) emission standards, vehicle manufacturers are introducing more fuel-efficient gasoline direct injection (GDI) vehicles. The biggest modification in GDI engine compared to traditional PFI engine is that fuel is directly injected into the cylinders after air is compressed or during the compression stroke. The new fuel injection offers less fuel pumping loss, more precise and flexible fuel volume and injection-timing control, higher compression ratio, more charge cooling, and improved combustion efficiency [4, 5]. However, GDI engines were also observed to have higher PM emissions compared to PFI engines due to possible fuel impingement on the piston and cylinder walls, incomplete fuel evaporation, and the inhomogeneity of air fuel mixture [6–8]. PM emission mitigation options for GDI engines do exist, which include engine optimization (e.g., adjusting fuel injection timing and volume, number of fuel injections, fuel injection pressure, injector placement) [9, 10], changing fuel property and composition (e.g., controlling heavy aromatic hydrocarbons, increasing oxygenates in fuel) [11–15], and the use of emission control devices (e.g., gasoline particulate filter (GPF)) [8, 16–19].

See page 3 here:

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2018/mclaren_pc_a4010010_3d8_l2.pdf

the "PM (g/mi)" (CERT=certified is how the car performed, STD=the standard for comparison) column, shows "nothing" for particulate matter, too low to measure.

and the 'PM (mg/ml)' column in the middle of the page, again, nothing.

Compare that to the 812:

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2019/ferrari_pc_a0400098_6d3-6d5_u3-125.pdf

See page 3, same columns, big difference.

The new EU standards that is forcing GPF is literally an order of magnitude (i.e. x10) the previous and they changed from measuring particulate volume to counting number of particles! Impossible for GDI engines to pass without GPF.

 

I almost agree with you. I think the F8 is the second best looking car in the mid-engine line. I still think the F355 is the best looking mid engine Ferrari. (I own neither so no ownership bias) No wrong answers of course!

 

Of course the 355 is the best looking ever. Everything after it is nice but plasticky.


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Some folks might pull out knives! be careful!

 

For me anything after enzo’s death, to the exception of a few models:355,458,Enzo,laf (not f50) isn’t really a Ferrari, of course it is as I owned an ugly FF but it’s just not the same as those good old car Et jour airbags and everything
I will happily take light stabbing!

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I think a Ferrari nowadays transcends even the old man. I understand the appeal of pre-1972 cars in terms of rarity and 'purity' - undiluted by Fiat's pedestrianism. Ferrari, now though, is different and will continue to be different. I sympathize with those that cleave to a particular epoch.

I do not understand that those don't accept Ferrari can't just make copies of the 250 forever. It would cause the gnashing of teeth in terms of performance, reliability, and ironically - rarity, the very thing that is a big part of the mystique.

That's why I'm pleased with our secondary market - if one longs for older days/models - it's no further away then your computer and a flatbed.

I happen to think the FF/GTC4-Lusso is a cool car and with a great design. I mean, if that car is ugly, why not other hatchbacks such as the legendary GTI, Cosworth, Integrale, Quattro?

They are universally praised in terms of both FORM and function.

The answer, of course, is evident for one that does some serious self-reflection. It's the imaginary illusion and rules that Ferrari "are not allowed to do certain things." Could it lead to ruin? Perhaps, but something tells me Ferrari will be here even when they are all autonomous.

Regardless, if you find a person that you think is the most beautiful human in the world (and everybody else doesn't) does it matter?

Only to those that seek to press complete stranger's happy buttons over their own.

I do feel for many folks with this state of mind.

 

I agree... In addition would also add the 308 GTB QV and 458 to the list. I own none, so no bias either...

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Thank you for the information. I didn't know ALL that...

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I do like each successive look over the previous.

F8>Pista>488>Speciale>458

It will be interesting to see if this holds 10-20 years down the road...

 

So a slight increase of 100 cc's gives a bit of HP but I suspect that as quoted above 700 at the wheels this engine must be running much higher PSI.

 

But what about engines like the Boxer in the 86 that uses both and electronics to optimise and it gets away without using a GPF. ?

 

I think your answer is found here:

https://www.motornature.com/2013/12/lamborghini-huracan-gets-a-duel-fuel-injection-system-to-avoid-a-particle-filter/

and here

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3172

the dual injection system overcomes the flood of particulate matter resulting from a cold start and passes emissions testing without need of GPFs

 

Yes drag racing is a USA thing. I’m more or a road course track guy and have done way way more of that than straight line speed. However being a car guy I am into all sorts of motorsports.

I am not sure what 458/488 variant means but I too love the looks of the F8. Only thing I do not like are the looks of the wheels but in no way would keep me from buying one.

 

Naw .1 liter isn’t going to matter.

 

cliff notes anyone?

 

McLaren uses a different method than Ferrari to inject fuel for combustion that results in far fewer emission particulates (essentially zero). The net result is no GPF required for McLarens to pass EU emissions testing.

 

My thoughts exactly. Yes Azzuro Dino


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Thanks! The redneck version is perfect for me!