F355 Market

how many cars "above market" does it take to just be market?

sjd

 

Well it’s market on BAT. So I’d agree on this being BAT market. Check hammer price, other venues have not been bringing this.
I just bought a 99 355 spider with major done, new clutch etc for around 60k but it had 40k miles. So far so good minus the top not getting up this morning lol


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That's a ridiculous statement. There's market and there's not.

sjd

 

Disagree. Why would cars have different values in
Europe than here? Did you think about that? Just check hammer price and u will see the values are very BAT specific...
Basic law of supply and demand. There are just different market venues. Think of it as a stock, currency etc. Same for cars.
So please keep ridiculous statement to yourself thank you very much-that’s being disrespectful and I’m not to you.You just see things differently and that’s okay. We can all respectfully disagree with one another.
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Europe and here: You only said Bat market and other hammer prices, insinuating that was American markets. So let's discuss american markets. Yes, mecum cars go for far less, so buy one at mecum, and dump it on BaT for +20%. You could probably even get investors to back it with that kind of return. But no one does, why? Because it's one market. BaT is the place to sell a Ferrari. I'm not sure what sort of seller doesn't do their research to sell their car for the most money.

Europe and here: I've watched prices, and known people who imported for personal use. It's kinda net zero. I don't know enough people in europe buying and keeping there... I've even tried selling cars to markets I know are hot. It's net zero for the euro buyer.

G-wagen: You're a better negotiator than most people?

 

No other auctions venues is getting the bat numbers right now it’s that simple we both agree.Not everyone sells on BAT either. Why I don’t know but it’s the case.
The “because it’s one market”not a statement I can not agree Check the black 355 on bat recently (spider) or TRs lots of them have bounced around from different auction site. Sometimes they are resale on BAT.
Sorry we just disagree and that’s fine.
And I’m not a better negotiator- i see that as different markers- in the Bay Area G’s are not as well liked as a Tesla , not in Miami. So mine went for sticker...in La wouldn’t be the case...I just bought now in SF and shipping it to Miami when we move back there this winter.


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I will agree to disagree then.

In addition, the volume of cars for sale really dictates it should be one market. They're not Camrys (or G-wagens). If one pulls the money, its because someone had to have THAT ONE, RIGHT NOW. (and if it were red/tan, that's silly, unless it was a premier example). The market is doing exactly as it should...because it's one.

sjd

 

Agreed that one , right now. See we are getting there. Not one the one market.


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why did you edit?? The g-wagen statement is gone, just to reprimand me...(also ridiculous)

We are discussing the ferrari market, and there's only one. What you're seeing is a larger SPREAD of values than standard marques. Cars are bought and shipped much further than standard marques. Some cars LANGUISH, while others sell two or three times. Some are auction queens, some are owner loved.

EDIT: I looked up both mecum sales, both are well within market price. yellow GTS F1 was filthy...jeez guys... (if you don't have time to clean it what else did you skimp on?)

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thats called arbitrage and i love it!

 

i think its simpler than you guys make it out to be...BAT gets premiums because its the only platform where you have hundreds of people evaluating and commenting so the premiums come from better transparency. Cars are not liquid and buying them is largely opaque, especially to the non enthusiast. BAT makes it easier for the non enthusiast who has money. in general i do find that BAT cars do look cleaner than most other venues.

 

I edited because i was off topic but i did respond to you and it was edited before you responded FYI since as you know there is a time limit to do so.
I’m not sure what you looked up but none of the prices I shared were remotely close to BaT and that’s okay.
Since you want to define a market price what is it then?and how do you come to a price.?My day to day job is to build statistical models for banks so I’d hope I know how to do that but happy to hear how u come up with a price.
In the end market is up and it’s all that matters and I’m happy about that if that makes my car go up in value


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Wisdom as always! [emoji38]


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You just agreed it's a single market...

You're a statistical model building pro. Let's build a model then. Teamwork! It's the F355 thread, do the F355. I'll help.

First, there's a thread (or a section of this one) that discusses the RANGE of values given the type of F355 it is. 6- speed, F1, GTS, GTB, spyder...etc. make it easy, sort further by color.

Second is Auction venue. IMO, Mecum is at the bottom, BaT is at the top. Weight by number of cars sold through each.

Third is sold vs. not sold, and what the reserve was if not sold. Include actual selling price vs. asking price

Fourth is geographic area with a weight as to whether the car stayed in the area as an auction queen vs. being shipped to a happy new owner.

Fifth is to include sales from big dealers, private parties, and small dealers. How many cars does Yellow Compass move that no one knows about? What if they skewed toward BaT prices?

Sixth?

I keep this all in my head...but to see it written out would be cool. We all agree, the trend on the market is upward. IF in a certain geographic area, the trend upward is at the same rate as other areas, then the entire market for Ferrari F355's is accelerating at the same rate, and is truly one market.

sjd

 

Now that’s a fun task! And a great way to make friends! Sometimes messages get in the way but I’m sure we all
Mean well.
The only challenges is:
-reserve? It’s not always known
-what weight to give on service? Mileage?
-do we want to weight by volume sold by market?
Many ways to skin a cat!
-private sales are harder to get as well of course.

But we can start with something! I like that


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sixth: mileage/service history.
seventh: volume by market...I bet that's maybe stayed pretty even...depends on the timeframe...some markets have blossomed, Atlanta being one.

if only someone kept track of all the asking prices, then charged people for a publication, in addition to their own classifieds...

*cough*
http://ferrarimarketletter.com/home



sjd

 

Looking forward to “The 355 Red Book”


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Ok I’ll start give me a bit of time but we can revert for this audience and adjust


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U guys are hysterical ur gonna build a model on an illiquid asset that has a min max spread of 70k?!?! Lol

 

maybe there's a skew of asking to known sold prices. i.e. "sold" filter on ebay.

 

and?

EDIT:
sjd
who once had a spreadsheet that took the previous 10 years of IMSA data and could give a likelihood of a yellow flag at a certain point in the race.

 

Can barely leave the house here so [emoji38]


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That’s fascinating. A cheap 355 is 50k. An expensive one is 100k.

 

yep. And buy a cheap one and you’ll end up at the same 100k. Go figure.

 

that's 100% right