Thank you for the link with details of the rear axle strip/rebuild. A few comments: As I understand it, your limited slip Salisbury 4 HA diff was installed as a factory option. Very rare indeed from what I have been looking around when trying to find one to replace the normal diff of my Indy I also see that during the rebuild of your diff, new tabs to lock the crown on the plate of the diff were put and torqued: Image Unavailable, Please Login From what I understand, such tabs were a bad design as the mild steel of the tabs creeps during use and does not ensure a good locking any more after some time. In my case I had to source a new diff because such loose locking lead to ovalisation of the fixing holes in the plate. See here a detailed picture showing a detail of the ovalised holes: Image Unavailable, Please Login And the thread where it was discussed: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/loose-diff-and-sheared-bolt-s-on-indy-4900.597824/ Based on that and after having sourced a Salisbury LSD, this was installed with individual hard steel shims instead of the mild steel tabs.
Hi Mike! Amelia island seems an age away now...Hope all is good with you and retirement is allowing rapid restoration progress The inside and outside of the diff case were coated in glyptal, the red coloured paint whose job apparently was to seal in any stray sand grains from the casting process. It is a bit like teflon in that nothing likes sticking to it - even other paint. When we cleaned the dirt from the exterior of the diff It was however definitely painted black. The case itself had not been opened at all so we decided it was most probably original and put it back to the colour we found it. I have seen alot of Salisbury axles with red exterior as you say, so I guess some were finished that way. Alternatively the black finish could have been worn off the glyptal over time, leaving a predominantly red casing.... I have learned never to rule out anything with Maserati! I’ve just opened a nice bottle for Saturday supper so I’ll raise a glass to you and all Maseratisti. Salute! Mark.
Extraordinarily RARE professionally meticulous work. From one perfectionist to another---very impressive. Congrats.
Maybe I am missing something, but the tab locks in the picture appear to lock two faces of the nut which is something I haven't experienced myself. In my opinion having more than one face of the nut secured, along with the proper torquing of the nuts, should prove to be adequate for long term securing of the nuts against loosening. A properly torqued nut, on a connecting rod for example, having no locking tab, rarely loosens, which is why torquing specs are provided for so many fasteners.
Hi Froggie. I had forgotten about that discussion to be honest. I just asked Andrew who did the work on the differential and his reply was as follows. “Tricky one on the lock tabs or not. The bolt in the diff which broke was an X stamped bolt, so correct. One has to remember that over the last 50 years who knows what has happened to it. If you remove the lock tab then you are relying on loctite as the mechanical fixing. The issue is that getting the correct torque is essential, actually what you need to achieve is the correct stretch on the bolt, so clamping force. Torque is a function of drag and when you apply loctite it can reduce the torque as it will minutely set when full torque is achieved. We did a load of work on the pinion bearing nut on the MB F1 gearbox and the more loctite you applied the less angle you achieved, in the end we stopped putting loctite on and used oil instead and we solved the pinion pitting issue as the assembly was properly clamped together. “ I think the design could probably be improved (not surprising as it is 50 years old!) but with the limited use the car will be receiving I am fairly sure that proper application of the bolts and lock tabs will do the job as intended. best to all. Mark.
The loosening issue comes mainly from the "too soft" washer material that is inserted below the head of the bolt, not from the tabs that are pressed on the sides of the head to block its rotation. What happens under stress (repeated hammering on the crown assembly due to the engine torque) is that the washer is progressively flattened so that the initial torque to lock the bolt will not be achieved anymore and hence the crown will not be pressed tightly enough on the plate of the diff. After some time, the hammering therefore either starts producing ovalisation of the holes that host the unthreaded upper part of the bolts, or breaks a number of bolts, as was observed by Andrew when reconditioning your diff. In the case of my diff, during a routine inspection because of a small oil leak, it was observed that some bolts could be turned ...by hand!!! No bolt was broken yet but obviously the torque was not there anymore. Upon closer inspection, ovalisation of the holes was identified. This can be seen when you look in detail at the interior of that ovalised hole. You can see a shining part where that hole is hammered sideways by the bolt (here on the left internal side of the hole) while it remains dark on the parts unaffected (here on the top and bottom of the hole). Image Unavailable, Please Login It is true that without the locking tabs you need putting a (hard steel) shim under the head of the bolt to equalise the load when torquing the bolt. Also either you use oil as indicated by Andrew, or loctite with the inherent risk of having indeed uncertainty on the torque applied but also better insurance not to have loosening of the bolt. Salisbury and Maserati made the design choice of the locking tabs, firstly ensuring the right value of torque upon assembly and secondly avoiding loosing a bolt during operation that may lead to potential major damage inside the diff casing during operation. That is certainly a good choice if the diff is inspected and the bolts retorqued on a frequent enough basis. But if the diff is not inspected on a routine basis and has to sustain tens of thousands miles between full service operations, single hard steel shims and "some" loctite look to me as a more secure option.
yes think of the difference in the type of girls that are had by an owner of a 250F vs an F250! Completely different.
Look what just turned up in Belgium? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
$750K for a Ghibli is quite a number. Is that where the market is now? https://www.gullwingmotorcars.com/1970-maserati-ghibli-c-4188.htm
I have no idea Carmine but what ever the market number is that's certainly high enough to warrant getting a decent set of photos for a car you're trying to sell. He should fire his marketing department. Almost any used car dealer who lists on Autotrader has photos of far higher quality than that and most of those suck. Embarrassing.
Bob, surely you've been to Peter's warehouses? His "marketing department" is one of the kids in the office or one of the mechanics. IPhone you're getting good photos. 7 year old no name phone -- eh. PS: sorry to say Bob, but the Bora is asking a lot less.
Yes I've been there. ONCE! That was enough. His photos have been much better in the past. He's going backwards. The Bora always will be worth less than a Ghibli, especially a spyder. But it's a much more sophisticated driving car and built like a tank.
Peter is a VERY good sales person. But the documentation he supplies for the high value cars he has on offer are lousy... He did not even mentions whether the Ghibli-S. is a 4.7 or 4.9....
At first view it seems to be a high number but the Ghibli spyder is a really special car. only 125 made, a very nice Giugiaro design and offers a much more comfortable driving than any similar Ferrari. Related to the actual Hagerty values it seems to be priced correctly. https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1970-Maserati-Ghibli?id=152893 It's always difficult to valuate a car without having inspected personally. It depends upon the model, the equipment of the car. and the originality. When offering my spyder I had an offer for EUR 620,- but did not sell. Maybe now is not the best time to sell a Maserati in Europe, but when corona will be over time will come to sell a very well maintained spyder for EUR 700,-. Alfred
Interesting that the Panini spyder is #1105, which is the next chassis after mine. He says it is a 1969 model while my car was built on 15/4/1970. My car was originally beige mettalizzatto which is not to everyone's liking. Perhaps the painted chassis had to wait several months before someone ordered it. Ivan
The Ghibli on the photos below is AM115.49.1984 according to my information, but to be sure I searched for that number and saw that BartvanderWeiden already posted about the car on page 21 of this thread (in 2011), so the number must be correct. Sold new in the Netherlands in 1971, original colour yellow, see also the information from Bart. In 2006 it was sold by the son of the first owner. In 2007 it was in the Coppa Bella Macchina, see first photo below (from Enrico’s site). In 2014 it was in the tv-series “Heer & Meester” in the Netherlands (second and third photo). According to the site of the Dutch Vehicle Authority the car is still in the Netherlands but there was a change of ownership in May 2014. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I am aware of 2 Ghibli Spyder sales that have taken place in the last 2 months here in the USA. Both were late 4.7 cars with power steering and rocker switches. 1 was light blue/black and the other was Silver/Red Both were sold new in the US with all the USA emission equipment. Both had good history and were well sorted. Both were sold with hardtops that were fitted at the factory. 1 (the Blue car) had starburst mag wheels and was sold with a set of 4198 wire wheels and tires. The silver car only had 4198 wires with the shorter studs. The silver car was sold with a set of fitted luggage which was on the build sheet when it left the factory. One car sold for $650,000 and the other sold for $795,000. Both were in comparable very nice original condition. I have seen dozens of photos of each car and am aware of the histories of both cars. Both cars are in my Ghibli Spyder Registry I have been keeping for 30 years. In this market, the one car was sold to cheap, and was a tremendous buy, and the other car fetched a lot of $$$. The market seems to have turned and is now recovering here in the USA at least. Prices are on the rise for quality cars in the top echelons of the pecking order. Ciao, FGM
A trip down memory lane. FGM Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
My guess is the silver car was #1181 which I use to own 20 years ago. Not too many USA Ghibli spyders that are silver/red with a hard top, wire wheels and factory fitted luggage. That was a really nice car when I had it. It was the car driven from Denver to Monterey in 2000, at many times at over 3 digit speeds. This is a photo at Laguna Seca with Bob Grossman, who was the East Coast Maserati importer and who sold the Ghibli to its first owner. BTW: I got a bad sunburn after driving across the desert with the top down and no hat. Ivan Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Ivan... That silver spyder was a very nice car... I remember that trip from Denver to Monterrey.. You actually let me driver her for a bit - ran beautifully... I think there is a picture/poster of us in the car taken sometime during the drive... Mike
A club magazine cover Mike with your four arms raised for the photo! I also drove it hundreds of miles with Ivan in Nevada on route 50 on the way to Reno, what a trip and week that was))!
There you go, I was able to finally reunite and consolidate my archives from both sides of the Atlantic this past year during Confinement: I T issue from 20 years ago! Image Unavailable, Please Login
I agree the classic car market has done very well considering the times and there continues to be a lot of pent up demand. To add a little color to the comps of the 2 Ghibli spyders that sold recently, I did an inspection of the silver car with red interior for an unsuccessful offer. That car sold for $650,000 which was a very fair price and favored the seller. The car was very tired with many areas of deferred maintenance - the entire drive train was leaking from both the heads, the main seal, gearbox seal, all the way to the differential cover. It drove well but needed a clutch. The repaint which was slightly off in color from the original Argento Auteuil and was a good 10 foot paint job with dust and runs in the paint and a few cracks. The interior was mis matched with vinyl on the transmission cover. Originally, a US spec car that was converted to Euro spec mechanically. There were lively debates as to whether the car was a preserved original artifact with patina or a good restoration candidate. I think it will be restored. The amazing luggage and history file were worth the admission price. Chris
