Will the V-12 Survive ? - When's a good time to buy in to one

From what I have found for the EU, only CO2 (above limits) is "fined", everything else is a "stop sale" (too loud, too many particulates and with Euro7, too many fumes...)

That's the problem, if only fines then Ferrari would pay that and move on, but, its much more than that...

 

The Roma getting a V8 raised some eyebrows but it of course is based on the Portofino so that makes sense to me, still a fantastic engine but could be a foreshadow of things to come. It will be interesting to see what replacement comes out for the 812.

 

Understood, I think the Fine and Loudness are mitigated (most enthusiasts a know get an aftermarket exhaust), Ferrari can add "Euro7 CO2 Fine" as another badge of the owner excess on the window sticker.

The crux is the particulates, which I understand has already been addressed, even with the latest F8.

Not worried about the status of the V12. What to me is more likely is electrification will be employed not from an environmental guise, but simply performance.

Two words whether we like it or not.

Instant Torque.

Some form of electric assistance will generally be eventually faster than ICE.

I know purists lament this and 'pooh-pooh' this development, but progress stops with no one - if Ferrari is about top uncompromising performance, then I argue, it's will further digress from the main pillar if it does not adopt electrification.

If you really are bothered by it, do not be troubled - plenty of classic Ferrari to choose from if the new models are not your cup of tea.

 

Weird article as so often in these days. The headline is about ICEs whereas the text itself talks about petrol and diesel powered cars. When do people start to realize that these terms cannot be used synonymously? The best thing is when people refer to the fossil ICE, as such a thing would exist. An ICE is not fossil, the fuel on which you're running it can be fossil. That's why discussing end dates for ICEs is nonsense. We should discuss end dates for fossil fuels!

 

The irony is this is all so silly and unnecessary.

The electricity in your car comes primarily from coal and natural gas, which are burned. You're just converting one energy into another. There may be SOME savings because you can burn natural gas in a large plant cleaner. But the tiny number of V12's out there wouldn't amount to a drop in the ocean of greenhouse gas savings.

It just "feels good" to those who don't own one or care.

"Look! We did something!"

 

Big picture. It is not just burning gas the electric car eliminates. Its oil changes, tune ups, air filters, oil filters, spark plugs, various fluids no longer needed..etc..all gone. Along with it the manufacturing of said parts by various manufacturers.

The reduction in those manufacturing facilities will result in obviously more electricity available. Those businesses will no longer be sucking on the grid making parts no longer needed. You guys are forgetting about the massive draw on electricity that will be eliminated. Yes I understand a massive amount of jobs will be at stake..including my own.

 

to me staying alive in this world will be pointless without ferrari . i see no point living on the future vegan, so called green, selfie loving, plastique women, tik-tok loving. pod riding planet .. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Imma get as many NA V12’s as possible...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Post of the month !
+1000

 

As a new member of this forum, l have recently purchased a 612 and loving it, l have bought it for long term ownership, the future of cars will be fully electric, self driving without any driver engagement apart from operating the entertainment system!! The V12s are of a bye gone era of motoring, and will not survive the ongoing regulation. I live in the UK, where petrol motoring will get more and more expensive as time goes on. Personally, if you can get hold of a V12, get one now, as they will be very rare within a decade or so.

 

I question whether the EU would permit that??

 

Is that a net negative in industrial electric draw vs charging all those cars, have you done the math?
What about the energy input to make, and also recyle the batteries and aluminum to make electric cars light enough.
My underdstading is were talking significant amounts of new electricity generation needed.

On another subject what about enviromental degradation from mining cobalt etc, or does that not count to greenies because its all in Africa?
What about the massive enviromental cost in refining rare earths metals.
So were going to mandate somthing to make Europe and others feel good while trashing the planet elsewhere? I think the move to electric cars has not been throught through in the rush to feel good.

Overall C02 should reduce because electric cars are simply so much more efficient at converting the energy to motion. I think a powerplant runs at 40% efficiency, powerlines and electric cars loose maybe another 10%, Thats 30% energy recapture compared to ICE at under 20% in best case. Plus a others have said power genration can be nat gas, nuclear and wind sun, so less overlal CO2 there also. But cars are something like only 30% of petrolium consumption, so were lookign at a 10% reduction on the 30% cars burn, so lets be genraous and say a 5% CO2 reduction at best with the cost of trashing mining areas and places where rare earths refined.

Electric cars move some air pollution for where people are using the vehicle to elsewhere.

 

Think of the fun you could have with a bed in the back of that thing with a plastique woman, maybe thyell even come with andorid women. LOl.

I think the ICE car country club will become more of a thing. Lots of open space to really enjoy the machine for those so inclined. Plus with 3 d printing youll be able to have your classic of choice recreated for your driving pleasure at a attainable price. And as a kicker you can summon your electric passenger drone to take you tot he car country club from you backyard to 100 or miles away in 30 mins.

The ebst laid plans of mice and men. Small countries with shorter distances can go all electric, Israel as an example, or Norway.
Global adoption of electrics is going to unleash many unintended consequences which will slow it down and IMo future fuels will range from electric to hydrogen to oils to... I dont think in the future there will be one solution, its all depedant on use cycle.

maybe when the air is clean enough Ferrari will get 1000 permits per year to build V12s. Or youll just be able to CNC a block, 3d print the rest and drive your new GTO on something like the nurbering.

 

yes and in converting energy from one form to another you are wasting some amount of energy cause nothing is 100% efficient ... and I wonder how much oil is used in all the plastic components and tires etc...

 

Not my area, but those who know tell me there are significant energy savings when EVs get their juice from natural gas power plants. Don't forget. It takes a lot of energy to produce gasoline and get it in your tank.

But like motorcycles, the inefficiencies of a few thousand V12s doesn't even rate a blip on the radar screen.

 

Ill speculate here.
When the dust settles Ferrai and others will get special dispensation as long as they keep ICE production below 10K units. Similar to how small manufacturers in Uk get special dispensation.
Flywheel assist will count as Hybrid legislatively so that will be a loophole too. Its really a great V12 with electric assist through the flywheel to fill in Tq gaps down low.
Italy is not goign to let the EU stop its permier industry, and quietly neitehr will the Germans do same to porche etc.

The paper performance numbers for electric sportscars will be so extreme, Ice will seem quaint exept for the noise.

 

Ford didn't reveal what's next for the V8 but hinted it's not out of ideas yet.

"We're always able to get a little bit more out of [the Coyote]," Schmatz concluded.

Ford will continue developing V8s in the coming years, too. Canadian union Unifor revealed the firm will soon build a new eight-cylinder with 6.8 liters of displacement in Windsor, Canada. Unverified rumors claim the engine will power the next-generation Mustang due out in 2022, and it could find its way to the 14th-generation F-150.

Ram, one of Ford's arch rivals, came to a similar conclusion earlier in 2020. It argued its market research shows its customers are still excited about V8s, especially when they're supercharged to 700-plus horsepower.

 

https://electrek.co/2020/11/19/electric-ferrari-time-to-give-classic-cars-a-new-lease-of-life/

 

Look.. the war on the ICE engine has begun. Doesn't matter what we think or what we say. These higher ups will dictate what we drive. As they say..we dont know what's good for us until we have no choice. Enjoy your gas cars while you can. Soon enough they will be worthless junk. Just like the old tube radios and t.v's.