LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

It depends on the weight and size of this new V12

 

@simpen, what does your factory contact say?

 

I would agree. But many out there don't care for facts but rather see just V12 + SUV.

 

An oldschool V12 with no hybrid assistance is highly unlikely and not future-proof, because of fleet emissions. SF90 proves that with a hybrid V8 there can be already be 1000 hp plus. There is no technical incentive to go above and beyond, weight reduction can gain more performance than adding power. I sure hope Ferrari makes a new V12, but if they do, I think it will be the last one and most likely compromise the concept of the car due to weight. V12 in the Purosangue would make very little sense to me, with the SUV being the volume car to bring overall emissions down. That is where they have to pull the Macan/Cayenne Hybrid trick

 

I was thinking about what's happening in the automotive world and how much Ferrari is adapting.
What if Ferrari unveils a naturally aspirated V12 mid-engined Berlinetta with manual transmission? Can you imagine what a thrill? But perhaps it is still early.
I understand that it would skip any rush to performance - manual gearbox will never be as fast as an electro-actuated double clutch - but what a shot at purity. Design suggestions? How will she look like?

We will see.

 

Forgive me if I come back to this topic, but in my humble opinion the SF90 is not the heir of the LaFerrari. This for several reasons. They are really two different objects. Different frames, different materials, different costs, different prices.

The SF90 positions itself exactly in a new and hybrid position. It doesn't replace anything being a new product. If anything, it serves as a conjunction between the recent past and the future. LaFerrari and what comes next have a life of their own.

 

He is not saying the SF90 is an heir to LaF. He is asking if the successor to the LaF can exceed the SF90 performance. Having driven the SF90 is it hard to imagine a normal driver being able to handle anything faster. The car is a rocket. So I imagine MalibuGuy is asking if Ferrari would focus on a very exclusive, light, advanced car that may or may not be faster than the SF90...In my opinion this is hard to produce. I expect the next LaF to be an evolution on the same theme. A V12 with hybrid assistance, just over 1000hp and perhaps the differentiation will be lighter batteries and a longer electric-only range. If they could do a LaF with even better chassis tech, 100hp more and 100kg less I think that would be an awesome car


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Interesting...must be a really high power engine as that thing is radiating a ton of heat out the back (around 3:10 mark easiest to see). Sounds like paddle shifts and a V12 and with the electric logo on the side probably not much of a different setup than the LaF. Never thought I'd say this, but the 5 lug setup on a LaF looks so cheap compared to the center locks...

 

To me, retaining the mid rear NA V12 engine sound vibration and throttle response is very special.

The SF 90 doesn’t sound anything like the La Ferrari. Hopefully the successor to the LaF will still sound great

 

Emissions are irrelevant. Manufacturers like Ferrari decide what emission targets they want to achieve on their own.

 

100 kg less is not enough. It needs to weigh 1100 kg tops. Ditch that stupid electric motor.
A 6.5 litre 1000 HP naturally aspirated V12 will do just fine. And a central driving position.

 

I like the way you think but unfortunately unrealistic these days. And I'd go with a 7.0 litre and a min of 10K rpm and just say no to hybrids and batteries.

 

No way, this is will be not a T50, LaFerrari successor will be better a hybrid like a SF90, but more powerful and lighter than SF90

 

Hopefully better looking too...
Not feeling the design language of Ferrari of the last couple years ( minus a few exception of SP project cars).

 

Yes, well said. I agree about it having a minimum of 10.000 rpm.
But it isn't that unrealistic. The F50 GT has 900 kg and it was built in 97, so with modern technology I don't see why they couldn't make something similar.

 

Then it will be garbage. The T50 is the way to go. It's the perfect embodiment of what a supercar should be like. It's only flaw is that it's not that good looking.

 

The XX-cars are argueably faster around a track It is not a question of ability, pointless to compare a track-only special to the next-generation hypercar (which will need to stack up to its competition).

With the hybrid predecessor, I don't see them coming back from it. For sheer fun, they should go to the Dino-route, small, light, nimble, can be a V6. All the last generation of Ferraris have gotten the 'Actually too fast for the road/ability of the average client' review from journalists. They will bite themselves in the tail if they keep adding the HP as a compensation for straying off the pure, NA path. "Yes, it's a hybrid, but look, it's got a gazillion HP!"

 

It is amazing how easily you characterize a car as garbage, because it doesn’t match the on-paper specification of a small volume producer who charges over 3 million a piece and hasn’t yet produced a single car. By the same token a LaF is garbage, a Pagani Huayra is garbage, a Bugatti Chiron is garbage...Surely not

Ferrari is not competing with GMA. The brand and shareholder benefit of producing a 3 million car that will probably cost 2.7 to develop and produce and then sell it to 100 people is pretty limited. No one aspires to own the „junior version“ because it won’t have the low weight, three seats or advanced engine at the lower price...You only have to see how few people associate today’s McLaren products with the F1 to realize this. The P1 is not heading towards 10 million, it is heading below 1 (and i like the car fwiw)

Ferrari will probably produce a car that costs 1m and sell it for 2m to 500 buyers. And for every purist that thinks the car is garbage, it will have 10 buyers queuing up to buy it. Which is why it is so great at what it does




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The XX cars are actually slower on a track than the F50 GT.
And who the **** wants to buy a car with a V6 ?
I want a V12.

 

It's not garbage cause it doesn't match the specifications of a small volume producer, it's garbage cause it deviates from what Enzo Ferrari wanted from his cars: the ultimate driving experience, not something that has lower emissions.
The F40 and F50 are way better cars than the overweight crap SF90, which I wouldn't take even if Ferrari handed one to me for free.

No need to produce "a car that costs 1m and sell it for 2m to 500 buyers". They should produce a car that costs 2 million and sells for 5 or 10 to 100 buyers.

 

Ferrari doesn’t want lower emissions. It is forced to have lower emissions. It is also forced to have heavier cars due to safety regulations. The fact that it continues to produce exciting cars is a miracle in itself

As for the rest of the comments, I respect your opinions and I assume you have driven all the cars you praise as well as the cars you despise. If not, please drive them and see if you feel differently. By the way, if Ferrari offer you a SF90 for free, take it. You can always give it away to your friends if you don’t like it!

Also it is a little naive to think that the best brand in the world hasn’t thought about its optimal price / production mix as well as the implications of each model for the entire range. As I said to you before, Ferrari needs to sell 10,000 cars a year and keep its fan base interested forever. It is not GMA. If they felt that this purpose is served by selling a 10m car to 10 people, they would have done it. It is not, which is why they haven’t done it.


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These look very much like battery tests to me, revving the engine to charge it up and going round in circles to maybe discharge it.
Don’t think that’s the way to test an engine unless it’s just for cooling.

Also we knew well in advance there was another hypercar coming well before a Laferrari mule started testing on the streets.

 

it's complicated though in reality, Ferrari could make a much better lighter and exotic car and sell it for £3m to less buyers but then the likelihood of it appreciating signifcantly would be reduced.

imo for a lot of buyers the ferrari purchasing ladder is a game and the end is being selected to buy the halo car which will in general net you a ~500k-1m profit over a couple of years. it's a thank you to the lucker buyers

although that is increasingly difficult, I know a couple of people who were expected to get a LaF but didn't.

 

It is a good point but I am not sure it is about price evolution/appreciation. In fact I think that if Ferrari made a McLaren F1-style car and sold it for £3m to 100 people, it would go to 10m+ pretty quickly. But Ferrari don’t care about this as it has limited impact on future sales.

I think the main driver is retaining a link between the halo cars and the regular production models as it makes those models more desirable... eg saying that the 599GTB runs a “version of the Enzo engine” or that the 360CS has “brake technology from the Enzo” (because it used ceramics) makes buyers think they own a piece of the halo car. I remember being told that my 599GTO would have “the engine of the 599XX” or the F50 having “a F1 engine” etc...In contrast, no Aston Martin will have a version of the Valkyrie engine and no McLaren can claim to have any of the F1 DNA (the Speedtail is much closer to a 720S than a F1).

Ferrari’s ability to market many of its cars as being directly related to its flagship / race car is a key element of the brand being what it is. It can definitely build a Bugatti Chiron-priced car. It can definitely use more exotic materials and create more advanced engines. But then the link to the rest of the food chain would become much harder to maintain.



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