Potential new owner hoping to get thoughts on potential car

Good morning and thanks in advance for the help.

I am hoping to put toes in the water with a Mondial and found a car that I would characterize as a driver that you can park in the hotel parking lot at night an not worry about it. My goal is to drive, travel, use the car for the experience of it. I'm more focused on being able to jump in and have a road trip (200 - 4000 in a weekend sort of thing) than polish it. This car seems like a candidate for those duties.

This car also will certainly have deferred maintenance and is a bit tatty, I'm expecting after talking to my local independent shop that it will consume $10k +/- in service costs to make sure it is ready for another 50k miles. That said, I'm guessing since this would be my first Ferrari and I'd prefer not to do anything overly dim witted.

Could I asked for some eyes on this car and honest thoughts about condition and what I might be in for here? I honestly don't mind of the car is a bit used/scruffy if it enables good experiences and since I plan on really using it having already been driven down in condition some lets me not worry about the inevitable road rash etc...

https://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/DEN/555/1985-Ferrari-Mondial-Quattrovalvole

Thank you for any coaching and the prior discussions and community here have been very-very helpful.

 

Is that its original colour, not seen it before. If the sunroof works then shut it and never open it.

 

Good morning Mike, thanks for the response.

To my admittedly uneducated eyes it looks like Marrone with tan leather, yes, maybe?

Will make sure the sunroof stays closed. Does it tend to break open? Drain leaks?

 

I think that example looks pretty nice. With some scrubbing and detailing, the cosmetics could be dramatically improved, without making it so pristine that you would not want to drive it. There are some signs that the car is properly maintained, the correct UFI oil filter, plug wires oriented correctly with wire holders not broken, some of the hoses look like they were replaced, etc. It may haven been maintained by someone practical who did not worry about looks as a priority.

A few things to consider, the preventive things I can think of that are either safety related or can strand you, and when using the car is the goal that is what one cares about.

The car has the TRX tires on special rims, so you need to get the special tires, Longstone carries them, they are expensive so budget that into your purchase price. Check the tire date codes and if older than 8 to 10 years they need to be replaced for safety. One would also look at fuel hoses for age/deterioration, some may have been replaced, but these are safety items so need to inspect carefully and deal with them one way or another.

Since you will likely have a timing belt service done if the seller has not done it within the last 5 years, replace the water pump as well. When the belt change is done make sure various tensioner and other idler bearings are checked for free movement or replaced.

Electrical problems in Mondials are typically fuse board related, the board is a laminated type that degrades with time. New ones are not available, so you get a rebuilt item, GT Parts looks like one of the better options out there, https://gtcp.com/product/ferrari-mondial-remanufactured-fuse-box/ there are others if you search the FChat. Getting new relays would be good preventive measure here as well. Take apart electrical connectors and clean with Deoxit, the electrical connectors in these cars are not nearly as water proof as those on new cars.

The clutch has a slave cylinder that can leak and a hose that is close to exhaust heat and should be renewed. Not a big deal to replace, so I would do that preventatively.

Make sure the CV boots are not torn, look things over for oil leaks, small leaks are ok, but the cam and differential shaft seals, and shift shaft seals can become a bit bigger than you might like. Probably do the shift shaft seal just because it is not too big a task.

There is a coolant hose under the red plenum in the engine bay that is hard to reach and may be original. Ideally would replace, but at the least make sure when the car is hot it shows no sign of bulging.

Beyond that, you want to have a new battery (it is replaced through access in the front left wheel well), and lube up all the hinges, throttle linkages and any other bits that are accessible, eg. take apart the throttle pedal and grease the two small bearings in there.


I love the colour!

 

Thank you @moysiuan - appreciate you taking the time to look and the considerations. I will make sure to address those items if she ends up in my care.

 

As far as the sun roof is concerned, i am still seeing the doctor and getting over the breakdown trying to fix it. Leave the Bloody thing shut. As fas as the TRX tyres are concerned, these are metric size and only made by Michelin. Can be £400 each, so $500 plus each. You can get a set of new wheels which give you access to a range of modern tyres of non metric sizes- also allows you to fit the big brake kit as standard brakes a bit lacking.
After market exhaust bits are cheaper than oem.

 

Thanks Mike.

Will take a look at low key / non-flashy alternative wheels. Not sure I want to be stuck with TRX tires.

 

Superformance in the UK has reproductions of the later style wheel that I believe work on the QV, and will take regular tires.

 

Was just going to post this, they carry wheels that look very similar to the stock wheels.
As for the marrone coupe that dealer has had it advertised for a long time but recently lowered the price, I believe they were asking around 37k for it previously.

 

It has been on eBay for at least 1.5 years. And been discussed here too recently (like a few weeks ago?)

 

Thanks gentlemen, will try to find that discussion.

Appreciate the shared experience and things to consider.

 

Found the thread - right below this one. Ha.

I missed that, but @hnichols is right, there is bubbling.

 

Awesome color!


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That other thread was mine; I've been seeing that same car for sale for ages.

Someone put up a "formula" in my thread about what Mondials cost vs. what they should cost; i.e., if you find a $30,000 car, plan on investing $20,000. If you find a $50,000, you should be able to invest $0. The upshot being all "good" Mondials cost around $50k. Either pay it now or pay it later.

I have no experience in what it would cost to get the rust out of a Mondial but I can tell you what my last quote was on a Jaguar XJS that had rust in the exact same places (rear @ the taillights, one of the wheel arches, plus paint to bring the whole car back to factory finish): $12,000. The XJS has a lot more chromework than a Mondial, so it needs more prep time/disassembly/etc., but it's also a more common car not subject to any kind of "Ferrari tax."

In the end, it looks like the "formula" would be correct. If the car could be had for $30k, and you're expecting to spend another $10k in engine/electrical, then it's going to need at least $10k of body work -- i.e., a $50k Mondial in the end.

Jess

 

You either like the colour or you hate it, i am wondering if it is original as never seen it before. It would sell a lot better in red or black. Personally i hate the colour and if you wanted to sell it ?

 

Thanks Jess and Mike.

I personally like the color but agree it’s not as widely appreciated as others, also agree it is impacting it selling.

Jess - living in SoCal if I just handed the car to a shop and asked them to fix the body I’d be at looking at the $12k estimate plus some.

I still think this car could be a driver but thankfully found the other thread which spotted the rust. Just don’t think I want to tackle that...

 

I have this exact same car -- except mine is blue (Blu Sera).

A couple of comments, most of which just reinforces what others have said above.

You really would want to get regular sized 16" wheels -- I have these (I also have the metric sized wheels stored in my garage). This lets me buy tires for a reasonable amount -- my last purchase was $800 for a set of 4 (including mounting).

The sun roof is a very weak point. And very expensive to replace the motor and cable with Ferrari parts. However, the sun roof motor and cables are identical to those in a Porsche 924/944. I pulled a set from a local pick-n-pull yard for about $20, and fit them into my Mondial with no issues.

The window motors are also a very weak spot. They tend to be very, very, very,very slow on raising or lowering the windows. However, the culprit is that the grease inside the drive motor has usually solidified. I had to take the motors out, chip/hammer the solid grease out of the gears (carefully as they are plastic), re-grease, and re-assemble. Then the windows worked much better. Still slow as compared to modern standards. But much faster than the 60+ seconds it was taking. This is a fairly easy process. However, if you do this, carefully document the cable paths before disassemble. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in a car. The cable pathways and pulleys look like a Rube Goldberg design.

One other item of note, especially if you intend to DD it in a city. There is no power steering. So at low speed, especially when parking, the steering is very heavy. You'll definitely build some muscles. At anything over 10mph, the steering is great -- light, and very direct feeling. It's a blast to drive hard. There is a power steering retrofit. But I think it eliminates the steering wheel tilt.

If you live in a warm state, the AC is somewhat weak. Mine works great, but on days exceeding 90f -- it struggles to keep up. There's a kit that someone here on FCHAT sells (ronfrohock?) that allows you to angle the center ac-outlet more up -- towards the driver and passenger. The original points down at your knees. Also, on the plus side, you can buy a new (Chinese) A/C compressor for less than $100 (which I have done, but not installed yet as I'm going to do that when I do the belt service this spring).

I've had my 85 Coupe for 6 years now, and have loved every minute of owning it. It's been a great experience. The car is fun to drive and the sound it makes is amazing. By the way -- they only imported a grand total of 69 QV Coupes -- They are somewhat rare.

If you are comfortable working on your own cars -- the Mondial is a relatively simple car. You should have no problem maintaining it yourself. My son and I do all our own maintenance.

This car looks amazingly like the shape that my car was in when I bought it in 2015 (I paid $25K). The interior is almost identical (in shape, color and wear) to what mine was. If it is like mine, you'll find that the leather is very hard, almost like cardboard. And very discolored. However, it's relatively straightforward (and easy but tedious) to bring the leather back to presentable form. I did it -- check out this thread where I documented my fix (cost me about $200-$300 and 3 months of on-again/off-again effort). - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/and-so-it-begins-leather-restoration.502419/.

Take a very careful look at some of the pics -- you can see some of the rust others mentioned above -- bubbling up -- next to the driver side tail lights, and in front of the passenger side rear wheel.

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My car had the same issue around the tail light. Fortunately, it wasn't deep. I scraped the rust out, treated the area, and touched up with Blu Sera touchup paint.

As for the paint color. I'm no expert, but I do think Ferrari had a brown color they used. Personally, I like it. But then, I tend to like almost all the non-red colors. Ask the dealer to look inside the truck lid, up near the top of it. There should be a sticker with paint codes on it.


Sid

 

Great post/information @sidtx

I guess there comes a point where either it gets cheap enough to take a chance or just smarter to buy a better one.

I know that the later option is usually smarter, but I think I will be disowned if a end up with a red one. (Just her aesthetic, not giving anyone a hard time who likes the gorgeous red that Ferrari uses)

 

You can buy a kit from Superperformance in the uk that speeds the window motors up, i think the original setup robs the motors of the full voltage, so they crawl. Do you have the relay mod for the starter motor solenoid fitted, that is worth having. I had my 3.2 for over 20 years, now the 430 scares the hell out of me

 

I saw those kits, but I wanted to try the grease fix first.

There's also something of a little boy in me that always wants to take things apart and see how they work.

I might do the relay at some point, as even with the hardened grease removed, and everything relubed -- the windows are still slow, acceptable, but slow by modern standards.

Congrats on the 430! I think my Mondial QV wants a playmate also, but she's been whispering something about a Testarossa! Something about a white, single mirror 85! (yep, I watched Miami Vice back in the day). May or may not happen, as I'm also thinking of getting an old Eurcoupe to restore (I know, I know -- I have weird tastes. But that twin-tail is just soooooooooooooooooooooo sexy). I'm having visions of a 47/48 Ercoupe with a G3X glass panel!

Sid

 

I don't have anything against red. It's just that we aren't a red-car family. For resale and recognition, red is probably the best color to get.

As for waiting until the perfect car comes along -- that's just a matter of what you are willing to put up with. The brown car doesn't look bad to me -- if the rust is all minor. Also, if you enjoy working on cars, then a less-than-perfect car is the way to go (in my opinion). Plus, you don't have to worry about dings, scratches, parking, etc. My exterior (minus the rust) looks just like the brown one -- even the nose has similar rock-chips. Doesn't bother me at all. And at all the shows I've taken her to, no one has ever come up and poo-pooed my car. Just the opposite -- most people enjoy seeing it, and since it's not perfect, I let anyone (adults and kids) sit in it -- without worry.

These cars are a blast to drive. Always puts a smile on my face. And, I almost never have the radio on. Windows down, engine screaming at high rpm! What a ride!


Sid

 

A big part of your decision should be if you are able and or willing to do the mechanical work yourself or if you are going to hire someone to do it. Same with bodywork.

 

@rob - I generally do my own mechanical work, which should help. I have done my own welding on the Alfa GTV I restored but not sure I want to dive into that here.
Thanks for the note.

 

That is definately a big help IMO if you can do your own work esp. something like a timing belt service.

 

Thanks Rob, I like getting hands on the cars I road trip in. Builds confidence and helps make sure I can still buy Cheerios for the kids.

Going to put a WTB out there and see what comes of it.

You all have been great, thank you.