Best final full ICE car under $500,000? And over $500,000?

All the new stuff is going to be not only boring but slower than electric.

I'd say things like f50 or carrera gt or f40 that give you an experience would be best.

The ultimate over 500k car is the mclaren f1. Very special. Not just because it's fast.

 

I understand your point, but do cars need to be any faster? Serious question. Reportedly, the 765LT, under the right conditions, will go 0-124mph in 6.8 seconds, or 0-JAIL in about 3.5 seconds. If the only appeal to the next generation of cars is performance, that won’t be enough for me.

 

Nope they don't need to be any faster but the fact of the matter is electric cars are going to be WAY faster.

So my point is even buying a 765lt is going to be lame because it will still be slow compared to an electric and it won't be as involving to drive as some other previous cars

 

Way faster doesnt mean engaging to drive. It just means way faster and most likely far less engaging.

I agree with Cadster that current ice vehicles are already endowed with superfluous power where full potential can rarely be accessed so how is a super powerfully fast electric car going to prove any more engaging - least of all accessible - again? Love to hear some reasoning here to support how these overly powerful electric cars supposedly destined to relegate cars like 765 into insignificance - cars which dont even make any noise - are going to be more engaging and overall enjoying to drive?? Can someone please help me out here and explain??

The attraction with the latest ice cars over early supercars cars from the by gone era is that the new ice are in most ways more engaging and enjoyable to drive as their later/superior engineering works with the driver vs the earlier less resolved engineering which faught against the driver in certain areas. Chassis tech is now so advanced its as if motoring is at its engineering pinnacle with little growth left on the future table other than a few tweaks here or there.

So improvement can now come mainly in the area of emmissions and providing more power and acceleration none of which has so far demonstrated to improve actual driver engagement. In fact so far it has shown to diminish driver engagement leaving the driver frustrated in being unable access the enormous power reserves for any longer than a second or two. Added to this frustration is the lack of noise along with the use of nannies now required to save the driver from wiping themselves out when they bury the throttle. That is if they ever get the chance to.

 

I was out driving mine today, this car will never be lame. How can you say it wont be as involving as older cars when you have no experience driving one? What does that even mean? Are there certain criteria you have that determines involvement? Wouldn't you also say this is subjective?

In regards to electric cars, they feel so clinical to me. I had my Taycan Turbo S for a few weeks and couldn't stand it.

 

Likely the fate of the P1 and 918 etc as well.
Cars that are raw/dangerous/a handful/“stick” will be prioritized in addition to the classics like F40/50/F1.
With that logic, CGT, TDF etc will be favored long term. I would imagine the forthcoming 812SuperDuper will be less of a handful and long term not as desireable, relatively speaking. If buying to drive, then just buy and drive and no worries about last of the whatever.

 

Yes but raw stick and dangerous doesn’t mean more engaging and this is where some of the latest ice cars hold greater attraction to most.

I understand the confusion surrounding clumsy and dangerous as being more exciting/engaging but it isn’t. Its just clumsy and dangerous.

Engaging and exciting comes from being able to control the car and not have the car control you or kill you from making a slight error of judgement. Engaging is all about connection and having controls which work with the driver - not against. Its also about having power which can actually be used and which makes noise - not power with no sound which frustrates the hell out of the driver due to being unable to access it for adequate periods of time between corners and along straights.

 

That's actually an interesting question.

I wonder what an F1 driver would say is more engaging, a 1980s car or a 2021 car? On the old car one is engaged because of how much more interaction the driver has, but the speeds of the new car are such that a great amount of a different type of engagement is needed.

But that's at a race track where there are no speed limits. On public roads where speed and associated g forces are restricted the raw stick car that's trying to kill you is going to be more engaging by definition as the thinner the margin of error is the more precision is required and the more concentration is required ... all that is more engagement.

This doesn't mean that more engaging means a better ownership experience, some people prefer getting in a TTS or an F8 and have the car do most of the work for them, but if one is looking for more engagement they have to go back to older cars, even if they are more murderous.

 

100% it's subjective. Absolutely.
I think you guys are taking what I said wrong. Which is probably my fault.

I'm not picking on the 765. Yes I pick on mclarens. Your right I haven't driven a 765 yet. I have driven plenty of 720s 600lt 675lt etc... Mp4.

For me the mclaren brand isn't the most involving.

It's totally subjective.you guys are 100% right. And what I say or like isn't what you .at like and vice versa. I'm.so.used to mclaren fans just being fanboys because it's a missile. And it is. Downright one of the fastest cars and it's amazing and it rides really well. But for ME the product is pretty sterile.

So I was saying carrera gt because it's a manual has that insane sound has a characteristicly tricky clutch... It's twitchy etc...

There is nothing else like it.

The 765 or 720 can be found in an f8 or a 488 pista etc... They are all just kinda vanilla.

What manufacturer does not make a 4 liter twin turbo v8 at this point?

I'm not giving the mclaren a hard time just more of what seem super important and relative today and cutting edge today isn't going to be for long so I would suggest to find cars that have more lasting impressions other than speed.

If the 765 does it for you WONDERFUL and I mean that absolutely genuinely.

Me I'd prefer a 355 over a 458 for an extra car. The 458 will be super slow by ev standards and the 355 is gated stunning unique great sound etc... Just totally unique.

I'd prefer a 365 daytona over an sls. Daytona is a much much worse car... But Its experience can't be replicated.

Well I hope I'm clarifying my position instead of digging a deeper hole.

 

Your pretty much making my point which I mean politely and saying we are in the same page

You are saying the super current stuff will be more engaging than electric. Which it will... But I'm saying the even older catelog will be even more engaging and since speed won't exactly be a factor... I favor the experience.

I think we are saying the same exact thing but I am just referring to older cars than the current catelog. ..again it's just my preference and opinion.

 

< 500 ( well in your prices ) 488 GTB
> 500 Maclaren F1

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Under 500k - Mazda MX-5 Miata

Over 500k - 812 VS

 

thanks for clarifying. I now have a better understanding of what you meant previously.

 

I like your code name of 812 “SuperDuper” More fun to say and inject into conversation

 

How does the sls bs driving experience compare to the speciale? Which one do you find more engaging and more like an event? Thanks

 

I’m sneaking up on 50, so my peak driving years will be the next 20, so the cars only need to keep my interest for that long. I just don’t see becoming interested in the sterile, soulless, government mandated electric supercars. To be sure, the 812 VS performance will be shattered by future offerings, but its appeal will be durable.

 

What about the 992 GT offerings? Those are still expected to be ICE cars, correct? I don’t follow Porsche nearly as closely as I do the other manufacturers, but I know you stay up on those cars.

 

Long term keeper right? I know the roads are cold, and you are just learning the car. Any early thoughts compared to the Pista?

 

Any seat time in a 765LT? It’s hard to square that car as being “kind of vanilla”. It the 765LT is kind of vanilla, what does “kind of bad a$$”. So far as I have seen, every owner has lavished praise on the car so far, and this dude called it an “LMP car for the road”.

 

Do any of those guys have LMP experience?

No but I'm sure I'll have a 765 to drive in the next 60 days.

And yes the car is flat out amazing. I think you are focusing on that you think I'm attacking the 765... My point is more of the speed will be matched and likely bettered by an ev so while everyone loves the 765 right now as it is brand new hot car of the moment... It may not stay relevant as far as speed. So does it have enough intangibles to make the cut.

That's all. The 765 is an awesome car. It's probably the best car for sale on the market right now.

And as far as vanilla I was more referring to all the 4 liter v8 twin turbos being vanilla. So more speaking about the engine than anything else.

 

Understood. And I don’t know if Matt has had any LMP seat time, but I sure would enjoy it. The closest I have come is iRacing.

 

I like your thinking. Plenty left over for gas!

 

For relatively "recent" production cars, I'd have to say under $500k would be a Porsche 911 GT3 Touring. Over $500k means the sky's the limit right? In which case I'd say the Pagani Zonda - seems like they're willing to do one-off new productions if you have the cash, as shown by the Pagani Zonda Zun

 

My event horizon is a bit shorter than yours, and I'm going out of the ICE world with a bang (458, F8, STO). And then it's on to electric........


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Oops, forgot to post up the specs......but it'll be a chick magnet no doubt.

Most powerful four wheel scooter in the USA!
15 mph max speed,
45 mile range,
500 lb weight capacity,
digital dash,
3 speaker stereo system,
cruise control,
locking cargo box ,
alarm system,
remote key fob