Which way does this bolt goes? | FerrariChat

Which way does this bolt goes?

Discussion in '308/328' started by miketuason, Feb 14, 2021.

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  1. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Clearly on the parts catalog the bolt (circled in red ) shows that it goes from the back to the front which make sense as if you need to remove the front drop link, you don’t need to pull the bolt all the way off but, most of the 308 I have seen even the one I know it hasn’t been touch, shows the other way around (front to back) so does this matter or not? Thank you.

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  2. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

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    FWIRC the bolt is illustrated correctly. The end with the nut has a special washer to help clear the link and bushing.
     
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  3. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Thank you Wayne. You know even a couple of the Ferrari restorer I ask says it the opposite from the illustration
     
  4. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    I think Wayne is correct, I've got two 1979 cars, on both the bolt goes from the front to back. For what it's worth, seems obvious that bolt 21 in the parts diagram (Front suspension, Upper A-arm, inner, rear position) is shown backwards as well. See picture, my bolt has a shoulder under the head, from an loading standpoint, it would make sense that this raised shoulder goes to the hardened center-ground bushing in the dog-bone link to the sway bar.
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  5. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Clarification: I meant to say I believe the illustration is not correct for both bolts 12 and 21.

    Apologies Wayne, I’m saying opposite of your post.

    To Mike’s question, does it matter? I like your point that it would make independent removal of the sway bar link much easier, but I don’t like breaking from general practice of nuts to the rear for suspension components.
     
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  6. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Paul maybe in my case it really doesn’t matter as I have the heim joint, what do you think?
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  7. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

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    yes I agree - reversal of direction from print - anyway there is a special washer with a cone shape to help clear the end link.....
     
  8. steved033

    steved033 F1 World Champ
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    In EITHER stock or not case make sure there isn't a radius where it meets the endlink or the Heim. That could be the reason it goes through "backward" with the nut on the endlink side. A stress riser can occur and pop off the bolt head.

    sjd
     
  9. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Since the heim joint also has the hardened center I think you're good, but I would consider two things: 1- Place a thin hardened washer under the nut, and (maybe more importantly) consider a nicely fitting hardened washer under the shoulder of the head. It seems to me the hardened bolt shoulder could compress into the (relatively) soft A-arm metal, with the concentrated force.
     
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  10. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    I forgot to mention that I do have the special conical washers for my heim, so I wonder if it still matter of the bolt orientation.
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  11. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Paul, you made a good point about the harden shoulder that could dig into the A arm but on the rear you can see that the nut is up against the drop link and without the conical washer on the nut side. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Mike- Regarding the rear dog bone link mounts, the diagram attached is from Table 39 (of Cat 189/80) showing the "conical shim" part number 32 (circled) going under the nut. Attached are pics from my 1979 USA GTS, the rear A-arm has a "built-in" conical feature with a landing to interface to the center-ground bushing in the dog-bone link.

    It's interesting, the diagram from both the 1980 book (Cat 189/80 on Tav 39) and the early 308 GTB parts book from 1976 (Cat 129/76 on Tav 37) show 2 conical shims, one on each side of the link bushing. But, in the corresponding parts lists with quantities, the later 1980 308 GTB/GTS book specifies only 2 conical shims total (i.e. one per side), whereas the earlier 1976 308 GTB book specifies a total quantity 4 shims (i.e. two per side).

    Based on my 1980 part book quantity of two total, my 1979 lower A-arm design feature, and what I disassembled, I'm confident the one per side goes under the nut... at least on my car. Let me know your thoughts, what year & market car is yours?
    Paul
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  13. NYC Fred

    NYC Fred F1 World Champ
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    ((but I don’t like breaking from general practice of nuts to the rear for suspension components.))

    Is that assuming that, if you lose the nut the bolt has a chance to "maybe" stay in place?
     
  14. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Barring other design considerations, I believe that nuts are typically to the rear for various reasons: 1- Reduced chance of road debris thread damage, making disassembly more challenging, 2- Front threads have increased possibility of capturing road debris, 3- Possibly less corrosion, and 4- Aerodynamics. I also agree with you, my sense is that if you lose a nut, the bolt <may> have an improved chance to stay in place. (disclaimer: I'm not a suspension engineer)
     
  15. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Ok I finally put everything back together and decided to install the bolt from front to back, thank you Paul and everyone else for their input. I do believe the parts catalog isn’t accurate but who knows, sometimes Maranello works in a strange way. :)
     
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  16. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Mike- Looks great...I like the heim joint washers!
    If easy, I'd be interested to hear what year car yours is, and how the rear lower control arm dog-bone mounting ears are configured (i.e. a conical landing, or does it require one of the conical washers on the inside (front), then the dog-bone, then another conical washer and nut?)
     
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  17. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Paul , I apologize as the picture above with the yellow swaybar is not my car, I was just showing it to you that the upper part of the rear drop link where it attached to the lower A arm shows the nylon nut is against the drop link which I was wondering why can’t it be the same for the front instead of heaving the nylon nut facing the rear and not against the drop link like the rear. Anyway, this pic is my rear heim with the 22mm swaybar.
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  18. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

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    Thanks Mike, bingo... you're second pic is (what I think) correct.
     
  19. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    The first and second pics is actually the same drop link, (left side) it’s just the second pic was taken from the top. By the way my car is an 84 QV US version I I just finished setting up the final ride height and readjusted my HID headlights.
     
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