Is there an expiration on tire life even when mileage is low | FerrariChat

Is there an expiration on tire life even when mileage is low

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Circle K, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. Circle K

    Circle K Karting

    Dec 21, 2017
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    KC
    I don’t track my car, once in a while I’ll open her up. I’m finally replacing my original tires, my 07’ f430 has 13k. No cracks or uneven wear. The rubber doesn’t feel harder than my other car’s tires that’s 3 yrs old
     
  2. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    #2 raemin, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  3. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I've spun out a few times on old tires, I wouldn't take that risk ever again
     
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  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    Why are so many folk who come on here happy to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a car but insist on not changing dangerous tires for the sake of a few hundred !
     
  5. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    #5 raemin, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
    There are a few "good reasons" to do it. One of my car for instance is just resting on 2008 tires:

    1. The engine is out...

    2. I was just about to bit the bullet on fresh rubber, but the tires I am using are produced in batch. The production rate can last over a long period. This basically means that if I buy tires on the month preceding the new batch production, I am likely to end-up with "new several year old tires". Whenever sellers are slashing the price of my TRX tires well below 400€ instead of 500€ (which has been the case for 2 months now), I prefer to let them get rid of their old stock and wait a few weeks for the new batch of fresh rubber.

      @Longstone Tyres , just wrote the following in the previously quoted thread : "Just as a note. when you buy tyres for your modern car they could easily be anything up to 3 years old when you fit them. Of course the more obsolete or obscure the tyre the more difficult it is for manufacturers to keep fresher stock."

    In any case, a Ferrari with dry tires must stay in the garage until it is fitted with the rubber this car (and your safety) deserves...
     
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  6. Circle K

    Circle K Karting

    Dec 21, 2017
    153
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    KC
    it’s not the money, I always just looked at the little stubby in the grooves, now I know. On my daily, the tires have 20k/4 yrs, has hair line cracks on the side, a shop told me not to worry cuz it’s from weather, still have lots of treads,
     
  7. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 21, 2012
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  8. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    Dec 24, 2007
    430
    Wilmette, Illinois
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    There are 2 absolutes for replacing tires: 1 - the tire wear indicators (TWI) are exposed; 2 - there are cracks in the side walls. With a good tire protector (Armorall, etc.) you can prevent UV damage to the sidewalls. My low-millage 2004 BMW 3-series coupe has its original tires, and I don't notice any difference in their perfomance. I don't believe in the widely held belief that tires have a relatively short useful life.
     
  9. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    Structural integrity and rubber shore hardness do also have to stay within specifications. It is possible to check the shore with a durometer, but no easy way to assess the internal structure (Inner liner adhesion to the steel cords). So although, all visible aspects of the tire have been reviewed (wear, cracks, shore hardness), there is still a high risk of structural failure (see Jean-Michel's tire in the link I posted earlier).

    I would hate to be involved in an accident with 20 year old tires... Assuming I am still alive, no doubt the insurance company would make me regret the saving on rubber.
     
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  10. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    Calgary, AB, Canada
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    That's what Roger Rodas and Paul Walker thought when they got in that Porsche Carrera GT on original 8 year old tires... then they were killed 15 seconds later when they discovered that the ancient (8 years) tires had indeed lost much of their original grip.

    It's not a belief, it's proven and tested that your ancient tires will have a fraction of their original grip. Try an emergency braking event, or emergency lane change maneuver, in a safe place - you'll be shocked at how bad those old tires will behave. Unless you can guarantee that you'll never need to make a hard stop or swerve to avoid something/someone (and face it, you can't), then you are assuming a whole lot of risk with your unwarranted faith in the appearance of ancient tires.
     
  11. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    Jan 9, 2021
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    jan mante
    please don't ! BUY NEW ! as stated a MAJOR factor in Paul Walkers and Rodger roads death WAS the old tires what a tragedy !
     
  12. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
    343
    Westchester New York
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    Mark k
    All tire manufacturers use a proprietary compound blend of natural and synthetic rubber to meet the market in which the tire is being produced for on all tires is a build date it’s a 4 digit code first 2 digits is the week and second 2 is the year “1319” would be around sometime in March of 2019
    If you go to the manufacturer website there’s usually recommendations on how long the tires could sustain safe operational conditions under certain usage this is only a guidelines to how the tires will react do to age and wear and most of course call for replacement after a few years and if there is any signs of damage or uneven wear
    All my cars get a good wash regularly and the tires, weather stripping and all other “rubber” parts get cleaned and treated with “ammo rubber and tire” compound
    In my opinion and with so research just like leather keeping the rubber protected will help in the longevity of the product
    All manufacturers build a product with a lifespan “no matter what it is” if they didn’t they would be out of business in no time so with everything else do your maintenance but plan on replacing and if you are a “ aggressive driver” the newer the tires the better and safer
    If the car is a trailer queen and sits will that’s just a crime in my eyes lol but you do you and tires should not be a issue


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  13. alex

    alex Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
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    Crystal Lake, Illinois
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    Better safe than sorry....
     
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  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Goodyear says 5 years, max.....

    And I recently had a 2012 bike with OEM tires, they were cited in the Safety Inspection and replaced, so there's some legal precedent as well..
    The ONLY variant I would use to go past that, is stored in the dark, literally, even then, it's very iffy.

    You can add the totalled Houston 1992 F40 to the list, of "lost to old tires" accidents.
     
  15. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    How do they possibly know the tires were the problem, the car crashed and burnt into a pile of debris?
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    As I understand the details, much like the F40, the sizes were not readily available so the OEM ones tend to be "left on"....I'm sure there were Service Records on such a low miles vehicle...
     
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  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Porsche GT are like helicopters, every crash is "pilot error"....
     
  18. alex

    alex Formula Junior
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    Six figures spent on a car vs. about $2000 - $3000 for a set of new tires? No contest!
     
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  19. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    The family attempted to sue Porsche, which in turns made a comprehensive analysis of the accident.If I remember correctly there were some marks on the asphalts that clearly showed the car went straight and could not turn, plus the service record that illustrated the insufficient maintenance. All in all these old tires costed : 1) two persons life 2) loss of insurance compensation.

    Tires and suspension bushings slowly degrade, so you do not notice the gradually worsening handling. The day you service the suspension and the tires, there is such a massive improvement that you suddenly realize how your car was dangerous.

    I have a proven record of engine failure due to my poor driving skills... I would prefer to spare myself the embarrassment of a perfectly avoidable tire failure.
     
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  20. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    Jan 9, 2021
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    jan mante
    well there are proximal causes and YES everyone knows old tires are horrible no point in debating the bloody car went out of control and crashed it might NOT have IF it had good tires on it ! i doubt the guy drove it deliberately into a pole at 100 +MPH the car SHOULD have been able to negotiate the corner @ that speed it was well sorted Porsche ! ( w/ CRAP tires ! )
     
  21. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2010
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    Palm Beach, Roma
    Don’t even think twice. change tires at 5 years.
     
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  22. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    I will not blame you for being conservative, but as far as I am concerned I prefer to follow manufacturer recommendation, as in this case it is cheaper. Michelin guidelines are pretty clear: start inspecting tires thoroughly after 5 years, in any case change them after 10 years (https://www.michelin.fr/auto/astuces-et-conseils/conseils-auto/quand-changer-mes-pneus-auto : sorry the manufacturer guidelines are in French).

    The 10 years maximum life is a far stretch, but I am more than happy when I can keep the tires for 8 years. The real issue here is how to comprehensively test the tires once the 5 years period is over. That's typically where a shore durometer is worth every penny: it allows to monitor the tires for a few more years without compromising my safety.
     
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  23. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    and going over 100 mph in a 15 mph turn.


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  24. Signor Buona Wrencha

    Jun 21, 2008
    79
    Albuquerque
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    A set of tires for a 430 are less than a grand.
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    18,755
    a lot of the tires you get from tirerack are 2 years old...so figure that out....
     

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