Lewis Hamilton discussion thread

This doesn't make sense. Vettel's Ferrari was a top car a few years ago, yet he made more mistakes than some midfield drivers. Max has the comfort of having a car that's faster than 80% of the field, yet he still makes more mistakes than Lewis. Max himself said Lewis does what it takes to be a 7 time champion. Your are basically saying Schumacher, Senna, Lewis made less mistakes because they were in a top car, not because of their skills. I don't buy it.

 

As long as there is a single car that is faster, any real driver will push till the limit to try and catch it, so obviously the guy driving the second best car will always be pushing harder than the one driving the fastest car, and will be more prone to make mistakes...remenber senna in 94?

 

Reminds me of the Clark years. Jim would bring the car back almost ready for the next race, while his team mate would bring a car back that needed a complete rebuild for the next race. More life left in the tires, more life left in the brakes, the suspension bushings were not worn out, some fuel remaining, nothing bent or broken,.....and fewer broken engines and fewer broken transmissions.

 

Good point about pushing more and thus making more mistakes and/or car less stable


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Good point but if u look at some of his races he already had a tendency for mistakes: with Webber or in Brazil when he got world champion...but a lot less than now!


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I think you misread him. He is saying that when you are in a top car two things happen:
1-One the car might be better more stable so naturally less mistakes are made which I think is true and fair
2-If your car is faster than other then to Achieve the best time you don’t necessarily have to push as much.

I hear what you are saying as far as him hinting that Lewis is therefore overrated. I don’t go there but his 2 points are valid.


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Yep totally happened to senna in 94 in Brazil. He was still then the best driver but that fw14 was hard work to get a lap out that was perfect. U were on the edge on it.


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Jim Clark was the complete opposite of Gilles Villeneuve !

 

I also have to credit the Mercedes Team. I think they are top-notch. Ferrari has a long way to go. It gives me ZERO pleasure to say this.

 

I read it differently, which is fine. There are multiple midfield teams that have stable good handling cars. Great drivers make less mistakes and get the most out of any car they drive. There have been multiple races where Lewis had to push from the back or didn't have the best car certain weekends and made little to no mistakes.

 

One of the most exciting things to me this season is to see how Seb performs. Were the mistakes inherent to his mind space? Or was the car/team truly toxic for him?

Exciting to see how it plays out for Seb.

 

Yes that will be interesting, I personally think Seb has something left in the tank

 

To be clear I wasn’t criticizing Hamilton rather shedding light on what was meant by the OP.
It’s clear that pre Mercedes Hamilton made way more mistakes so there has got
To
Be a correlation between his improved driving AND an easier car to
Drive than his McLaren


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Not much. He seems mentally drained


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I think Vettel is over the hill.
He had his best time at Red Bull, and never managed to replicate that at Ferrari (and their cars were good some years).
The forced move to Aston is a nice way to end his career, but he isn't a top notch driver anymore and he cracks under pressure on the track..
Vettel is a nice chap though, presentable and with a good sense of humour, who could be a good ambassador for the Aston brand.
It's probably why he was recruited; even racing in mid-field, the eyeballs will be on him.

 

We'll certainly find out this season! Also interested to see the Checo Stroll drama. Just a lot of fun things to look forward to.

Cheers chaps.

 

Those midfield drivers weren't fighting for a championship. A whole lot less pressure. When you're in the slower car yet still attempting to fight for a title or simply race win you will push harder. Nat explained it to you again clear as day.

Exacty.

And I've said it plenty of times now that I do rate Lewis. But the pro-lewis lot seem to think any amount of criticism (is what I wrote even criticism?) = hate and/or detracting.

It's true I rate Max higher than Lewis. Leclerc could quite likely match/beat Lewis over a season. Ricciardo is over/under over several seasons (much like Rosberg, Button). Russell would put up a (much) better fight than Bottas could only dream of.

But I'm sure to the KTU's of this world all I just wrote is ''lewis sucks, lewis sucks, lewis sucks''.

 

IMO a combination mentally drained because of a toxic team atmosphere and horrible rear end from the car. It was going pretty good for Vettel right until Sergio Marchionne died and the team almost instantly was directionless. Lot of eyes to him, fighting for the championship in not the fastest car, an entire countries' hope rested on his shoulders and criticized his every move + never mind the weight of all Tifosi + childhood dream of winning a title with Ferrari (he's been saying the latter when he was at Red Bull and karting days).

The Binotto handled everything from team take over to his non-extension of contract and complete lack of interest in fixing the rear of the car (which mysteriously did do the moment Vettel drove his last race for the team) sure as hell didn't help efforts.

 

Great analysis. I appreciate your take on the subject. What do you predict for 2021 at Aston?

Cheers

 

Let’s see ... (I know question NOTfor me lol)
But I’d expect #2 to
Still be red Bull but #3 will
Be close between McLaren/Renault and Aston.
I’ll gamble that the extra money and relationship with Mercedes for a longer time will make AM #3.

If u think about it Mercedes has an Interest in seeing AM do
Well... all Aston have those Germans engines now so... good performance from
Aston could
Mean more Aston’s sales, more money for merc and good advertisement for them.. one could think so I guess


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So now you introduce pressure of championships also being the reason of making mistakes, which means even though you have the best car, you may be more prone to make mistakes more so than midfield drivers if you are battling for a championship. In this case Lewis has passed this test as well, especially during the later Rosberg years and 2017&18. Yes he made more mistakes earlier in his career, drivers often have more crashes in their early years. Many F1 drivers echo me on Hamilton's clean driving and making less mistakes.

 

If we are to believe the recent comments from the AM camp, they're focusing a lot on the rear end of the car. Not sure if they take last years Merc' rear end, if they do, I expect Vettel to do quite well. Occasional podium when one of the Merc's/Red Bull's break down and perhaps here and there can even fight Bottas/Perez for a podium.

Of course he does have a Merc powered Mercedes to contend with now. But I do expect a happier, fewer mistakes Vettel.

 

1. The word is not "stable" the word you are looking for is "balanced". A balanced car can be pushed farther and harder (and not look it on the TV screen) because the out of control incidents are measured in milliseconds rather than tenth of a second (or longer). Consequently, these cars lead the pack if the power and aero are even close to the ball park.
2. Who was it that use to say:: You want to run the car only so fast as you cross the finish line before everyone else. So, if you are in a car 1 second faster, you are more like taking a stroll (Sunday drive) rather than trying to strangle the car into submission (which, I admit, was one of the things I really enjoyed about Alonso early in his career.)

 

I am in the pro-Lewis lot, but I take most of the criticism with the normal grain-of-salt--there are some extreme things I push back upon, but mostly the criticism of Lewis has been brought on by Lewis himself.

Max would have already had 3 WDC if Lewis and MERC were not on the grid.
Still, I enjoy rooting against him, more so in the past when he was playing the roll Vileneuve used to play, than of present.

 

I think for the most part, critics of Lewis driving ability have been silenced. I used to be in the camp that thought of Vettel as his better but the last few years haven proved the opposite. No matter what went on for Vettel mentally, behind the scenes whatever, his inability to handle that and the fact that he *really* struggled with the poor Ferrari's rear, does drop him somewhat. I still rate him but the greatest drivers should be fast in any car, not just those that suit him. I do maintain that Vettel would give Lewis a run for his money in a car that suits them both but when the going gets tough, Lewis would likely beat him.

Regarding criticism on Lewis, I of course criticize his hypocrisy and silly outfits he wears (hell I did the same to my idol Michael when he was playing Billy the kid). He does make it easy...

Absolutely.

I like him for the ''role he plays''. Big mouth but with the talent to back it up and isn't the typical PR robot that either says the nice things people think he should or backtracks his statements. I do think if he ever gets a car that's as dominant as the Mercs it'll be an extremely one sided championship.