NEW MID ENGINED V6 (LITTLE BROTHER)

you can also couple two different banks exhausts to maxime the pulse effect, if you want (like it happens in the twin scroll turbos by coupling cylinders 1-4 and 2-3 separately in the 4L engines) to mimimize turbo lag. You can't do it if the turbos are not between the banks

 

It seems to me that McLaren’s intent with the Artura is to target similar performance to Ferrari’s LB by using a formula of less power and less weight (and lower price). There should be sufficient headroom in their V6 to meet the targets of the 720 replacement (which will likely also have an electric front axle). I imagine it will also have less power than the SF90 (maybe 900 combined?) but probably also 200kg lighter.... hopefully also retaining the hydraulic steering and avoiding regenerative braking.

The divergence in technical approach will result in even broader choices for the consumer.

 

Impellers, by definition, are driven mechanically—not by gases. Impellers drive fluids for flow and/or pressure increase.

It’s the turbines that convert the exhaust energy to drive (the compressor impeller in a turbo, for example) and, generally, the hotter the exhaust the better. This is why F1 exhaust headers are insulated. Insulation also reduces heat buildup under the engine cover.

For sure a compressor working in a hot environment is not ideal and only adds to the temperature of the already heated compressed air. A good intercooler system will be required and we’ve already seen the 488-based LB mules with enlarged air intakes on cars’ flanks.

An alternate arrangement Ferrari might be using is for the turbines to drive electric generators that power electric motor-driven compressors (sited low and to the sides of the engine) to supercharge the intake air—a system already patented by them. Electronic management of the system can result in absolutely zero lag.

 

Even though a 120 deg V6 (like a 60) is even firing and generally better balanced (and better sounding) than a 90 deg V6, it is not perfectly balanced like a V12 or an I6. This is because of the so-called secondary (inertial) imbalance and, I believe—not sure, also a rocking (pitching) primary imbalance.

Interestingly, the original Dino V6s were an odd 65 deg., so sacrificing some smoothness in the firing order to cancel out some imbalance.

 

In the Dino engines they wanted a very narrow engine, so they chosed a small angle between the banks.

Dino engine was for small cars (F2 and Dino 206) so it had to be very small as width

Ciao

 

Yes, understandable. I was not comparing Dino V6 to the upcoming 120 deg. V, just noting that in the design of the Dino V6 they moved away from the theoretical best even-firing 60 deg to 65 deg for, probably, some balancing improvement.

 

Maybe because they didn't use a stupid black roof this time around. Also that side vents that feed the turbos are miles better than the 488 and F8 vents

 

With a black roof this car would look even more like a shapeless, generic car with stereotypical features with an inordinate amount of cheap looking black cladding and the more unfortunate standard McLaren features, like the bug eyes. A really lazy design effort.

Ferrari did that design of scoop so much better almost 40 years ago with the 308 and that little inflection point along the crease line forward of the scoop is a straight ripoff on the 458.

As mentioned earlier the 488 scoop was done as part of a mid-cycle upgrade to an existing car and Ferrari rarely recycle designs and instead usually always push the envelope styling wise for new ideas so as not to rehash stale designs. That’s why it’s so hard to anticipate what a new Ferrari will look like.

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with the v8 it was exactly the opposite, with mclaren more powerful than ferrari and than what is stated on paper. Why should it be different with v6? with the v8 of the 765lt they reached about actual 880hp, which means 220hp per liter, why shouldn't it be the same with the v6?

 

The Ferrari V6 engine main designer is a brilliant young engineer, not the same as the former V8 project leader: the McLaren Artena 3.0 V6 develops 585 HP, the new Ferrari "Dino 306" develops 650 HP.

ciao

 

I have to believe the Artura engine was specifically tuned to an output of 585hp so that it fits within the hierarchy of their current (and future) product portfolio.

If the LB has 650hp ICE + 100hp electric and be lighter than the SF90, will the performance gap be sufficient to justify the presumably large price premium for the SF90? What happens to SF90 demand (and image) if performance is close and the LB styling has a broader appeal?

 

I’m suggesting that the real world performance differential, especially after one considers the weight of the LB may impact the willingness for consumers to pay the big premium for the SF90. Of course, only time will tell but it’s an interesting situation to think about should the LB deliver a meaningful performance increase over the F8.

 

SF90 wont lose appeal. Look at Huracan and Aventador. Similar performance but massive price difference cause some buyers want the "best" ie most expensive.

 

Well put. This is why also the SF90’s styling, especially at the rear, is so unconventional—it really is a status car. LB will be more conventional all around, I think.

 

I find the styling generic and not really ownable outside of the face and just unattractive.

 

Look to the reliability of BMW’s N63 engines and Mercedes M176/177/178 engines. Although, they are front mounted, their reliability, especially those engines in BMW’s M S63 guise, and then being in the M5/M6 and XM5/XM6, and the AMG versions of the M176/M177/M178 should give us a clue on the reliability of the Hot Vee set up.

 

585 is what mc says...by now we know that mc declare at least 70-80hp less

 

Is it confirmed that the engine is a V6TT and not a Single-Turbo like in the F1 engine?


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yeah. Pictures are bland looking

 

This topic (like so many other) has already been addressed many years ago here on FChat and makes the point that the 65 deg angle was chosen to widen the V for more room for carbs and intake design. The 65 degree angle is also used on current Ferrari V12's.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/135145031/

Interesting fact about a 120 degree V for a 6 is that the crank can be a 3 throw crank (unlike a 6-throw for a 60 deg.) resulting in a shorter and stiffer crank. This is also mentioned by the McL powerplant lead in the article referenced in an above post.

 

Agree on both points. The new side intake looks very organic. They did a great job. Never been a huge fan of dual color cars.


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??? A stupid black roof is an option. Why wouldn't it be?





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Thinking a mid-year release ie July 2021 - Any thoughts.

Ferrari want to "own" this segment and with MC20 and Artura its starting to fill up

 

Some good stuff on this thread. Sounds like Albert-LP has an inside track and some great intel on the engine development. Very interesting point on history and benefits of the hot V and possibilities it’s renewed merits of both packaging and managing keeping heat away from battery wiring.

Timeline from what I heard for this year:
812 VS will be next unveil and LB will be 2nd half of the this year unveil, possibly September/October/November timeframe. LB will be a 2023 model year shown at the end of 2021. F8 production will end July 2022, August Holiday, line switches to the LB in September 2022 return and starts making the LB as a 2023 model with the first deliveries end of next year.