NEW MID ENGINED V6 (LITTLE BROTHER)

McLaren - I too have been a McLaren guy along with Ferrari and Lamborghini. They all build fantastic cars with their special attributes. As it relates to McLaren on this thread, I have had three McLaren’s now: 675LT Spider, 720s Coupe, and 720s Spider. I will predominantly agree with SoCal to az - the carbon tub, especially with their Spiders overall are a superior sub structure that add to the driving dynamics most noticeable in the Spiders. I think Ferrari, just like with the SF90, could make the chassis of the LB include the use of some carbon along with aluminum. Where Ferrari outshines them in my opinion is in the engine development. The turbo Ferrari engines feel completely NA buy comparison to McLaren’s that have a lag and then a surge in power.

McLaren Line-up:
Mike Flewitt (McLaren CEO) stated that they wanted to move away from the quantitative PS horsepower naming structure, it tends to impact perception. Same reason why Merc still calls their AMG’s “63’s” even though they no longer use the 6.2 liter engines. If they started calling them AMG “44’s” for the 4.4 liter it could signal to uneducated buyers that it is a lessor model. Hence, why yes, the Artura replaces the 570s and the new GT, which is getting a horsepower bump, is the new entry level in pricing terms for McLaren. I also think they may somewhat be moving away from the three tier classification of Sports, Super, and Ultimate series though. They want the Artura to be viewed as the super car it is.

No question, the $225K entry point before options is a lot of car when you think of it as a baby P1 for that price tag. Their product timeline caused them to developer their V6 TT Hybrid before the V8 TT Hybrid, whereas Ferrari is doing the reverse with the SF90 already out. We commonly compare the 720s and F8, yet McLaren aims for the 720s platform to compete with the Aventador and 812 despite the cylinder differences. In pricing terms, it makes the 720s a bargain. Moving forward, the Artura will be less expensive than the LB. The 720s replacement with the V8 TT Hybrid (on paper direct competitor with the SF90) will again, be either a bargain if you compare it to the SF90 or more expensive if you view it as a direct LB competitor. Both McLaren and Ferrari will clearly have similar line-ups in power plants with the V6 & V8 TT Hybrids to comply with emissions regulations but do so at different price points.

 

@D11, great post. I think you’ve nailed McLaren’s go-forward product marketing and positioning. Is it confirmed their 720 replacement will have a V8? I’ve been wondering if they’ll instead stretch the output of the V6 and add a ton more electric power including adding motors to the front axle.

 

I heard a rumor the 720 replacement might be a v6 hybrid. I find that hard to belive. If that is so....my 720/765 spider is gonna be a keeper.

And great post by @D11

 

Even though I find it tough to believe that McLaren will try to compete with a Ferrari V8 with a V6 but at the same time it also makes sense since so far they have used the same engine throughout their entire range.

 

The problem from a performance stand point for Ferrari is the 765lt is nearly as fast as the SF90. Waiting for Brooks to run these side by side. So the McLaren V8 TT Hybrid will destroy the SF90.

 

I don’t know if it’s gonna be a v6 or v8, but either way it’s gonna destroy the sf90

 

McLaren has set high expectations for themselves and are now expected to ‘destroy’ the competition in terms of acceleration. I believe they’ve also been recognized for leading some of the more qualitative areas such as steering and braking feel. Ride quality is also class leading with their pro active chassis and has proven capable at delivering competitive lap times.

With the Artura, they’re now extending a 5 year warranty which should deal with hesitations from consumers regarding relatability.

As an early adopter with one of the first 12C’s delivered, it’s rewarding to see McLaren succeeding and solidifying its place in the marketplace.

 

Some interesting images of the upcoming 486 (LB) ....

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-hybrid-ferrari-aka-the-ferrari-486-could-deliver-700-horsepower-ar191029.html

 

Looks like the LaFerrari successor using an Aperta body as a mule to me.


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The incoming new car has less HP than the F8?? Impossible.

 

I don’t care about the looks or performance of the Artura. Everyone has a their own opinions on what looks good and every car today is fast.

What has me most intrigued is the 5 year warranty. That imho is huge!

 

I agree here. I am not a brand basher, and believe all cars have their strengths and weaknesses. I’m a bit past needing a low 2’s 0-60, but a rigid spider is a must for me, and the added stiffness of a carbon tub is appealing.

Though not a huge fan of their headlight look, what’s really held me back from McLaren has been constant real world experience by owners whose cars have been in the shop time and again. And, build quality. To see a four year old car with fogged headlights and trim coming off the car - completely unacceptable. And yes, I’ve seen it in person.

Haven’t given up on them and hope they can overcome these issues. Sound will soon become a non issue in all these cars anyway.

 

I would encourage you to find a 720 or 765. Drive it. It will put your fears aside.

 

If that’s the case, the dual taillights of the F8 didn’t last long. Looks a lot like the 458 from the rear, sans the exhaust tips, some of which are probably fake.

Trivia note: Titanic was fitted with four smokestacks for symmetry, the aft most one serving no purpose other than looks.

 

@soCal, with an incoming STO and F8 Spider, encouragement is the last thing I need right now, lol.

 

IMO there is no way the LB has less power than the F8. Ferrari will be smart to not let it encroach on the SF90 though, they will need to have a gap to justify the price difference if they are both in production at the same time. There very well may be a time soon where a new model replaces an outgoing model but the horsepower increase may be somewhat negligible. New interior tech, new design, better battery tech, lighter weight to improve handling dynamics - all ways they could capture our dollars in future years. Drop the cylinders by two and add hybridization and new interior technology and it will still move up in price from the F8 likely just to allow more Roma/Portofino type models to be part of the lineup and creep up in price too.

As far as the 720s/765LT replacement combustion engine - that’s a good question, I suppose there could be just as much belief that it very well may be a V6 TT hybrid and not a V8TT Hybrid. If that is the play, it puts the SF90 in unique territory. However, the Speedtail is a V8 TT Hybrid, so they could likely go that same route with the 720s replacement too. It appears Lamborghini’s plan with their sports cars (excluding Urus here) is to stick with NA engines and hybridize, so no turbos is at least the rumor with the Aventador replacement and sticking with the V12. Porsche will most certainly stay with 6 cylinders and likely be the first to market with an all electric 911. That could leave the SF90 as the only remaining twin turbo V8 engine among the Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren/Porsche brands.

 

There's room to get 800hp out of a V6TT Hybrid package so I can see the 720s replacement going that route leaving a V8 for there specials such as Senna and others

 

I suspect it would be very costly for McLaren to upgrade and certify the existing V8 to be compliant with future emission requirements. The investment in R&D, testing and retooling for an engine that would only be installed in a segment of their model range could prove hard to justify. For all we know, it may simply be impossible given that the base engine has already been around for 10+ years. Also, one of the reasons they went with a V6 was to reduce the weight of the ICE power unit to partially offset the weight penalty of the electric motor and batteries.

Is there enough headroom in the V6 to increase power to around 700hp so that they can achieve a combined hybrid output of 900+? That’s the question in my mind.

 

Please let the next 720s be a HV8! Otherwise might as well go with a Tesla Roadster...

 

+1

If the future of these Ferrari’s etc is to continue to sound like aZZ, then might as well get the quickest (and cheapest) with the bet tech in the Tesla.

Here’s hoping Lambo fights on.

 

Looks awful with a black roof no thanks.

 

Well, I'll keep an open mind but my feeling is no. Overly complex. I'm sure it will be a rocket but how much more of a rocket do you need?

For 2022 (later this year) Chevy is going to put a 650 HP 5.3L N/A twin cam flat plane crank V8 revving to 9 grand (matched to the same Tremec DCT that Maserati is going to use) in the C8. Starting price: $80K vs $280K for little brother. Most likely few will walk out the door for $110K for the Chevy and $330K for the little brother. The convertible C8 will probably run about 8 grand more and will be introduced at the same time.

I'm not saying they will be the same machine but maybe Chevy's more simple / classic method is a better way for Ferrari's intro cars? Do we really need space shuttle mechanics to work on these things?

 

You lost me at Chevy.

 

Well, I think that's unfortunate because my point is that these cars are way overly complex for very little gain.

 

It may be but I don’t buy a Ferrari cause it’s the fastest. I buy it for a multitude of other reasons that a Chevy can’t fulfill.