Lewis Hamilton discussion thread

I'm very excited to see what happens. I will not lie, I'm holding back some personal anger toward him. I just put so much of my heart in him during the last 5 years, and I felt he failed me. I had a lot of painful emotions on the opposite end of Vettel (OMG, I sound like a jilted lover)

 

This makes this season all the more interesting. Can you imagine a flawless season for Vet? It would be redemptive to many people's eyes. Imagine him outpacing Checo?

OR

Imagine Stroll upstaging Vettel?

Very interesting stuff ahead.

 

F1 is a very emotional thing

I don't like Lewis at all so of course I can't be completely impartial when critiquing him or even praising him. Same goes for those defending him.

 

Totally okay, that's part of the fun.



Cheers

 

If stroll where to upstage Vettel his days are numbered. I very much doubt it would happen. If it all remains status quo from last year, Vettel beating Perez a few times to the podium should be a decent shot towards redemption IMO.

 

I like Hamilton and Mercedes, because they are record breakers, and dominate F1.
It's undeniable that Hamilton has alredy established himself as the MOST SUCCESSFUL F1 driver ever ( the numbers don't lie).
I makes no excuse for hoping he will break the 100 GP wins and 100 Poles, and create 2 unassailable records.
If Hamilton achieves that, it will be a real milestone in F1, probably never bettered.
I don't think his nearer contenders (Vettel with only 53 wins, Alonso with 32, or Raikkonen with 21) will ever beat that.
As for Verstappen still young and with 10 wins, I doubt if he will ever have the same conditions to achieve what Hamilton did. That's no slur on his talent.
I don't care what the detractors say, Hamilton has achieved more than any other driver, thanks to an exceptional set of circumstances.

What happens off the track is just an unnecessary distraction for me

 

Fair and accurate post. Hamilton is great and has been well helped by circumstances...
That being said with guys joining younger and younger f1 and seasons being longer and longer I’m pretty sure his records will be beat.
Hamilton was like 23 when he entered f1 nowadays guys are like 18-19, that’s 80-90 extra races by the time they are 23 on Lewis,
That will make a big difference just by the time they are 23.
Then as we head toward 24 races a season versus an average of 20 for Hamilton over 10-12 season that’s another 40/50 races.
So by 33 a guy could have started at 19 and have 120 races more than Hamilton or 6 full seasons...
Records will be broken. People didn’t think Schumacher’s could but they have and Lewis’ will too...
Then 10-12 years from now people will be arguing online saying Ham is better than the new record holder and old timers will be like NEVER senna, Schumacher is the goat u don’t know what u are talking about
That’s the circle of life for u


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I just go with..can anyone see Bottas winning the qualifying battle against senna during a whole year? can anyone imagine Nico beating Alain Prost in the same team?...i can't!

 

Not sure your point here - Bottas has never won the qualifying battle against Lewis during a whole year. In fact it's never been particularly close.

In the hybrid Pirelli 'management' era - absolutely. This was formula suited/flattered Nico somewhat (although I suspect Alain would have been very effective in it as well.)

 

Nico is one of the weakest WC ever, along with hill and button and his dad keke..so daring to think he could beat Prost over a season in the same car is blasphemous...
Heck he won a WC with less wins than Hamilton and ham could easily have won it that year


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I think the biggest one working against Verstappen (or anyone else for that matter) to beat Schumacher/Lewis records is that the FIA's future plans are working against single team domination: Better teams get less and less time on windtunnels and so on. So even jumping ship to the next best or 3rd best team in order to get into a car with more testing allowed could mean waiting a season or 2 to reap the benefits.

You do touch on something interesting inserting Senna into the chat, he's still heralded by many as the GOAT despite having half the wins of Schumacher/Lewis and less than half their titles. Even Alonso regularly is a contender for being the better driver than Lewis in these comparisons, and he has a third of his wins and 5 fewer titles. And lets not talk about Verstappen even, no titles, tenth of the wins, 30x fewer poles, is constantly being compared to the current ''GOAT by numbers''.

To a certain degree the absolute numbers are quite meaningless because it really does depend on quite a lot of factors how they got to such numbers (or indeed, why they did not get these numbers yet). For example, think away the Mercedes for a moment over the last couple of years and Max would be sitting on minimum 2 titles and around 40 wins already at this point (yes yes, before someone comes around and say but Mercedes IS there...I know and that's not the debate).

I'd love to see Verstappen and Lewis in the same team for a few seasons, but for a perfect set of circumstances it would have to be a team that's new to both of them to get the ideal circumstance. Both scenarios are incredibly unlikely to happen.

 

Bingo, you got it !!

That's exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned "conditions", and "set of circumstances".
So far, the FIA has allowed Mercedes and Hamilton to enjoy their superiority and run away with success.
Signs are that the rules will progressively be changed not to repeat that in future.
So, if another team and driver start to win too often, they will be "regulated" and pulled back in the rank.
The reason why Hamilton and Mercedes achievements risk never to be repeated is that the FIA is turning F1 into a handicap series.
Liberty has convinced them that stage-managed races with unpredictable results are more attractive and will bring the audience back.
So, I cannot see how Verstappen, the best challenger, could better Hamilton, and that has nothing to do with his skill; the odds are against him!

 

True but historically in any sports records have been broken& they allowed for senna’s , prost’s , Schumacher’s to be broken.
Nothing can prevent driver to be like ricciardo: short contract and new team every 2 years to win. Loyalty isn’t really a f1 thing


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I don't think it's impossible, II do think it'll be much, much harder to get to 5 titles, let alone more.

The ''Ricciardo path'' is probably the one to go for with these new regulations, but a number of factors do matter (choosing the right team, making sure an actual seat is available in said team...and a certain amount of luck will play it's part that the team has build a car that's among the top and that no one has build a much, much faster machine). Choosing the wrong team can easily mean wasting 2+ years instantly.

 

FIA has been doing rules to favour "equality" for decades and the winning streaks are getting longer and longer. It´s not just that they get the rule book wrong, but that too often they have to bow to someone´s interests, to keep a manufacturer in F1 or whatever.

Add that to more races per season and I´m afraid that records will be broken more often than before.

 

A correction, elton equaled Bottas on poles in 2019...5 each, i had the idea bottas had 1 more than elton.....still a very poor showing against such a clear nº2

 

The planets certainly aligned beautifully for Hamilton.

The ridiculous FIA rules combined with Mercedes advantage will probably never be repeated for another driver in the future.

Bottas will also keep helping LH for the 5th year running.

 

In 2006 we all thought Schumachers records would stand for decades if not forever.

 

Hamilton can win ten titles under these circumstances and 120 wins and poles. The truth is that the true connoisseurs of this sport will never be fooled with regard to the context.

 

That being said...
Why can Hamilton not be the greatest of all time?
He won at every single level.
No matter what and who he is, sincere or not. He has been one of the best at every step of his career.
Can’t fault him for winning in the best car, can’t fault him (at least not totally) for having a weak #2, can’t fault him for an era were cars seem easier to drive.
It truly isn’t his fault.
With that in mind if someone tells me he is the goat based on stats then it’s true, nothing can be argued.
Now do I think over a season in the same car he beats a senna or a Schumacher? Nope but I respect those thinking he is their goat.


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Times have changed. Now Liberty and the FIA are looking at parity between teams.
They have already introduced some penalty for the most successful ones, and more to come.
I expect that Balance of Power will be next. Several years of domination will become impossible to achieve.

 

Beaten too often by teammates he shouldn't be IMO.

For the ''stats are everything'' lot, there is of course no argument. Their facts don't adjust for anomalies. If every single car kept breaking down 2 laps from the end at every race this year, except Latifi's, latifi would win all the races. Their stats would say that the Williams he's driving is the most dominant car of all time (it won all the races) and he'll be the first driver that won all races in a single season, certainly making him a top GOAT contender. (of course this is an extreme example and I wouldn't put money on it...)

 

The stats remain the only objective way to rank drivers; anything else is subjective, and subject to if and buts.

It's the same for any sport. The percentage of wins is a good indicator, IMO. Senna 25.47%, Schumacher 29.64%, Hamilton 35.71%.

Of course you have to look over 5, 10 years or more to really assess a driver, not over one season.

Over the years, I don't think Hamilton was "beaten too often by team mates"; their career results surely don't match his.

 

Quality of cars driven, quality of teammates etc. It's really not as black and white as you say it is.

 

I agree ... I mean all the top drivers have had great cars but if u look at senna... I mean he had the best car for what, 88,89,90,91 so 4 seasons. Aside that he has decent cars so one could adjust his winning ratio and pole ratio to that time and I guess for Hamilton 2014-2022.


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