430 - How many people have headers with mini-cats without a CEL? | FerrariChat

430 How many people have headers with mini-cats without a CEL?

Discussion in '360/430' started by CoreyNJ, Mar 26, 2021.

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  1. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
    2,001
    New Jersey Shore
    I would also add... I'm looking for cars that have the original cats and and do not have a tune....

    I was told by a Ferrari mechanic (not my normal mechanic) who I was chatting with that replacing the OEM manifolds to aftermarket manifolds would cause issues where the car would not run correctly without a tune.

    I'm looking for examples on both sides as I do want to change my OEM manifolds at some point to challenge headers or aftermarket manifolds. I will be keeping my stock cats.

    Thanks,
    Cheers,
    Corey
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,753
    you can get mase to remap ur ECU for better hp and he can eliminate the CEL
     
    360Tom likes this.
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    I have aftermarket manifolds with no problems, no mini cats, standard cat converters, no retuning. You lose the pre cat in the oem manifolds so the trick is to start the cold engine and keep your foot off the throttle until the O2 sensors get a bit of heat in them. Blipping the throttle sends blobs of unburnt fuel to deposit on the cold sensors and throw a code. Not had a code in a few years. Fuel evaporates off a hot sensor
     
  4. Enzo Sebastian

    Enzo Sebastian Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 2, 2020
    241
    Amsterdam
    Full Name:
    Laurence Sebastian
    I have Capristo headers with the original cats and rear muffler. Car runs like a dream and sounds like a monster.
     
    DOWORKFCAR likes this.
  5. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Don't quote me but I think different year F430 have different tolerances in the ECU code. I think the future swiss-army ECU adjustment tool will be able to adjust the "acceptable" values between the sensors.
     
    DOWORKFCAR likes this.
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    I have their manfolds and the rear box with no valves- nice tone provided you run the gearbox in auto in town, paddles outside town as a bit more of a monster
     
  7. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    May 17, 2020
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    Costa Mesa, CA
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    Raymond Smith
    I installed the Fabspeed headers and was told by a Ferrari mechanic that I did not need the O2 spacers. Well periodically I get a CEL. After checking with my X-431 I discover the codes for left (P0420) and right (0430) bank that indicate a disparity in efficiency between the precats (obviously no longer present) and the downstream cat. They clear, but always return after driving the car. And, I never touch the accelerator when starting any fuel injected engine.

    I have the O2 sensors from Fabspeed and attempted to install them only to discover that you need to be a contortionist to do it (and I have O2 sensor sockets). There is very little available space in that particular area and the mini-cat attached to the spacer makes the problem worse. I intend to try again today because I am tired of having to drag out the Launch X-431 to clear the codes. The problem with ignoring the CEL and continuing to march is that you may mask a genuine problem and that is not something I want to do.

    People claiming they removed the factory headers ― and their included precats ― are being disingenuous when they claim the do not receive CELs and codes P0420 and P0430. It is physically impossible not to receive these codes and the concomitant CEL.

    Trevor is working on the ultimate solution, which is to instruct the ECU to ignore the non-existent upstream senor's lack of a signal (because that sensor is not present. That would prevent a CEL.

    However, the ECU determines fuel mixture depending on the difference in O2 and CO2 levels between the upstream sensor and the downstream sensor. Therefore, ignoring this may cause mixture control issues.Running rich just wastes fuel and exacerbates the black carbon substance emanating from the tail pipes. But running lean raises cylinder head temperatures (since latent heat of evaporation of the injected fuel has a cooling effect on the valves) and can lead to destruction of the engine.

    Fabspeed does not state that a tune is necessary after installing their headers, and they sell tune kits!

    While I'm not convinced that install the Fabspeed O2 spacers will solve the problem, I'm willing to give it a shot. But without even minimal installation instructions it is problematic.

    When I asked their tech support for installation instructions, they dispatched the instructions for installing the headers, that make no mention of the O2 spacers.

    Fabspeed could ameliorate this issue with some guidance, but they claim none is necessary.

    Obviously, and belatedly, I realized i should have chosen a different header manufacturer. The product seems to be superb, but the support has been abysmal.
     
  8. ditpixs

    ditpixs Karting
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2019
    187
    Nor Cal - Tracy
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    I am running TopSpeed headers, factory cats and use the Big Daddy mini-cats. No CEL since I installed, running the factory tune. 07 F430 Spider.
     
    Ray Smith likes this.
  9. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
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    Glen
    '07 with challenge catless headers. CEL straight away. Fitted 45deg O2 spacers, no CEL in 3 years. Spacers were easy to fit. Getting at the plug and wiring so the sensor could be unscrewed was the pain.
     
  10. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Raymond Smith
    But you have minicats. They fool the rear lambda sensor. That's what I am attempting to do with the Fabspeed O2 spacers.

    BTW, does anyone know where the rear lambda sensor wire connects to the ECU? it would be much easier if I could locate that and disconnect it so when the sensor spins in and out it doesn't kink the cable.
     
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  11. ditpixs

    ditpixs Karting
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    Apr 22, 2019
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    Nor Cal - Tracy
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    Aaron
    Agreed! I just put the mini cats in to save the headache. All of my research at the time led me to conclude they were the best option.

    I recall being able to unplug one of the sensors, but the other wasn’t worth the effort so I carefully pre-twisted the wire. They run quite a distance - one I think is up near the F1 pump.
     
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  12. MJGinTX

    MJGinTX Karting

    Mar 30, 2019
    157
    Noblesville, IN
    I also have TopSpeed headers. Got a CEL almost immediately after installing them. Put on Big Daddy mini cats, cleared the codes and ... after a year ... they have not returned. I also have a 2007 F430 Spider. No other medications or tunes.
     
    Ray Smith likes this.
  13. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Thanks. Found them both. You need to remove the rear interior engine covers on both sides to see them. They are held in place by bolted tie downs periodically and too frequently to attempt to remove. I'll just just twist them when unscrewing the sensors.

    Now figuring out where to squeeze the O2 spacer and minicat will be the next alligator in the swamp.

    When I'm done, I'm putting the car up for sale and buying a 2021 C8.
     
  14. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    #14 Ray Smith, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
    Here are photos of the way I received the Fabspeed O2spacers:


    I have no clue which end screws into the catalytic converter, and into which end the Lambda sensor goes.

    Either way, there is so little free space next to the cats that with a 90 degree elbow these will not fit. Fabspeed rep says no one every asked for instructions before, and that's why they have none. I asked them and they can't answer which end goes where.

    If anyone has a photo of these things installed on a 430, please share.



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  15. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Make that a 2022 C8 Z06. Orders for the 2021 have been halted. July 2021 is the earliest a 2022 can be ordered. That gives me time to unload this boat anchor.
     
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  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    I dont get the fault codes- maybe i am just lucky
     
  17. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    What headers are you using and do you have O2 spacers with mini-cats?
     
  18. craze

    craze Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2021
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    Melbourne
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    Michael
    Arent the precats for the mixture and the post cat for emission?
     
  19. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Capristo manifolds and just transferred over the sensors from the oem manifolds. Nothing else
     
  20. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    Ok now I’m confused. What is different with the capristo headers vs everyone else’s besides the fact they cost a couple of thousand more (including blankets)?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Only difference i know is they are made of T309 stainless and the bends are a work of art compared to most others, in the price you get the blankets which drop the engine bay temp down a huge amount. You also get the expansion brackets
     
  22. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Okay, I checked out the Big Daddy Mimi-cats. They screw in to the catalytic converter, and the rear lambda screws into that. No angles.

    AND, they are only $100 for a pair! They even have the install instructions right on the description page!

    http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html

    Anyone want a pair of impossible to install Fabspeed O2 spacers? FREE! Just pay for the shipping ($8.45 USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate). Otherwise these go to a toxic recycling facility.

    Next time, Capristo. You get what you pay for.
     
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  23. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    Something seems weird in your earlier picture of the Fabspeed mini cats. It looks like they are two different types. Shouldn’t they both look the same?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. cpep

    cpep Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    398
    new york
    Full Name:
    CHARLIE
    I have headers and stock cats with a Kline exhaust. Got a cell soon after the install. Tried regular extenders and cell came back. I put a set of big daddy's in and cell has been gone for well over a year. Just got it inspected a few weeks ago and no problem's at all.
     
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  25. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,607
    WI
    I'll take them!
     

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