1989 328 head noise

The fact that your ticking is described as intermittent helps rule some things out. A worn rod or crank bearing would typically make the tick on accelerating, not at idle. Exhaust leaks are typically at idle and acceleration, althought the engine noise can drown it out on accelerating.

Since you checked valve clearances, that rules that out.

Copper is definitely a possible bearing failure in the making, but you would also have low oil pressure as the concurrent problem. You would also probably get some steel shavings as well, can you magnet any of the metal shaving? Maybe get an oil analysis, this would detect the metal in the oil more definitively. Also, a wild card there may be some brass in the 328 transmission, maybe you have a failed internal shift shaft seal, and the gear oil is mixing with the oil, which could cause lubrication problems giving the engine tick and also account for the brass (copper?) in the oil filter.

The ac belt definitely can make noise, but I would describe it as a cracking more than ticking. It is however intermittent, with no rhyme or reason of when it may crackle/tick but usually when cold started and diminishing with warm up.

 

I agree with moysiuan however the AC belt can also tick similar to this sound. I have had the AC belt issue several times and the ticking or cracking sound depends on the slack of the AC belt. Anyway, its a simple thing to check and a serious chance to solve the issue.

 

I ran the engine with all belts removed to eliminate the possibility of it being the belts, and the noise was still there. Also removed the exhaust check valves and plugged them off, even removed spark plug extenders one at a time.... and still no difference. The shavings in the oil filter is copper ( theres no copper component in the filter for the saw to cut. Also they weren't shavings, they were more like small thin flakes of aluminium foil, but only copper. I showed the oil filter and copper flakes to a Ferrari Mechanic close to home, and the first thing he said was, 'bearing'. That's exactly what came to mind after opening the filter.

 

After reading all the comments and listening to the two videos it is clear that I suffer enough hearing loss that I would not have noticed anything and would still be driving the car. Good luck to you!

 

Damn man I'm really sorry to see that

 

I wish turning stereo up would solve my issue. But I think that would be a costly mistake.

 

Marco,
You did well with eliminating the easiest to detect causes. Indeed do the facts now lead to the cranckshaft slide bearings. Of course no good news but well reparable. I expect you will invite a specialist to listen and replace the bearings or have your car collected by a specialist? It would be great if you can keep us posted.
Success and best regards

 

Intent to do all repairs myself, after all, it's just another piston four stroke engine. I have rebuilt many Fiat push rod and twin cams, Alfa, Lancia Delta Turbos modified to fit a Fiat 2300, Lancia V4's and other makes. Not afraid to tackle this, just a little annoyed that this cost could have been avoided. I believe the root cause is lack of use in the sense the car has only been driven very rarely ( say 6 months between start ups ) and I think the dry startups is what probably started the chain reaction of bearing damage. I have just installed a two post car hoist in my man shed ( something I have always wanted. Makes it easier on my old body ). Just curious if I remove the oil pan, are the rod bearing caps able to be removed? Or is the windage tray impossible to remove without separating the engine from the gearbox? just need to make a small modification the the car hoist so it fits under the Ferrari. Missed it by 10mm. Bugger!

 

You can take the tray out but it requires the lower part of the dipstick tube to be taken out.

 

Marco, you are a true hero. I also try to do as much as possible myself but need help for this job. Take your time to adjust your car hoist and than allow yourself the time for the bearing replacements.
I dont know what other work you can do while being there?

 

Interesting comment about dry start up's causing issues. I visited the Ferrari factory a while back and whilst looking at the Cliente cars stored there the staff said they start them up once a year. There was a lot of very expensive engines stored there!!!

 

Wow, I would have thought that the contact between crank journals and bearing surface would be metal to metal contact by then. Unless they are using some special type of engine oil that sticks to metal surfaces for a long period of time.

 

Or unless they use a start-up procedure that involves more than just pushing the "start" button with a reasonably charged battery?
Mike

 

I doubt they do anything other than start the cars. What would one do? No car stores well, but on the other hand the oil film probably stays intact on bearing surfaces, and the harm is probably not great.

 

You will need to pull the motor and separate it from the transmission.

 

Unless the motor needs other refreshments (seals, synchros etc.) I would have a look from underneath. You may get lucky. This description from Birdman a few years ago on the dipstick:
1. Remove the big nut at the base of the tube, accessible from under the car. Most people end up buying an open-end wrench of the correct size (I forget the size....pretty big though something like 28 or 30 mm) then cutting it off with a cut-off wheel to make a "stubby" wrench that will fit in there.

2. Remove the nut holding the top of the dipstick tube to the cam cover.

3. Remove the dipstick tube.

4. Using a coat-hanger with a little hook bent into the end, reach into the hole where the dipstick tube connected to the crankcase and fish out the dipstick tube extender which is sitting in there.

5. Now remove all the nuts on the engine pan and pull it straight off. Be sure to replace the gasket when you put the pan back on and I suggest using a *tiny* amount of black silicone hi-temp gasket-maker on both sides of the new gasket to be sure it seals.

 

Afternoon Marco,
Sorry to say that you cannot access the rods without removing the engine. Tried it on mine...no way. Remove the engine from the car and once out, remove the transmission(which is also the oil pan). At this point you can see the rods and the crank.
Since you heard a tapping noise, big end rod bore may not be round anymore, nor the crank.
Don't want to be a pessimist nor scare you, but you may be facing a "big" task.

Hope I'm wrong and good luck!!!
Got pictures of when I took my engine apart if want to take a peek.

John

 

Started pulling things apart today after getting the car hoist pads machined down 15mm so that it could get under the 328. I noticed that even if the engine pan was removed, the hole isn't large enough for the windage tray to come out, let alone remove the bolts securing it. Anyway, have started pulling things apart. I'll keep you guys posted as I go.

 

I think you are correct. Started pulling her apart today. See how I go.

 

If the crank pins are worn, I suggest a five thou regrind and use Suzuki G16 bearings (King or Clevite are available and you may even find some Tasmanian ACL old stock which are good ). They require a tiny resize of the big ends and notches cut on the other side. I have aluminum bronze small ends in case you need them.

 

Marco, wishing you success. It will certainly workout well but needs patience. Please make some pics that will be helpfull for the next victims.

Hinecker, did you share your experiences on that job on a thread here or can yoy share some pics with us. For technical guys pics say so much more than words and unfortunatly only few add good pics to their great jobs.

 

Afternoon Menno,
Yes, I had a thread on that subject with many pictures. My problem turned out to be warped heads and block yet ended up doing the entire engine.
Can't remember the title of the tread, but Martin(German engineer and member of this forum), helped me out a lot. He may be able to find the thread.

John

 

I will offer a few thoughts for those who have never removed a 308/328 engine

• Protect the rear glass. Cover it with thick cardboard or similiar.
• Remove the engine at an angle. If you don't, see item above. I have used the engine tilt device and/or ratchet straps.
• The engine tends to swing forward as you lift it out
• Not a hard job, take your time.
• Now is a good time to take care of a lot of items that are easy with the engine out
• Replace all fuel and coolant rubber couplers
• Replace heater hoses
• Replace shift seals

It's been awhile so I am probably forgetting a few items. Others may chime in.

Good luck and keep us posted

 

Thanks John, that was a major job! How did that happen and at what milage? My engine (Euro 88.5 328) did 82K km and fortunately is performing better than ever. I like reading the mechanical adventures of fellow Ferraristi to be prepared to do the job when needed. Marco's job is very interesting here and certainly like to know how to access the crankshaft slide bearings.
Menno

 

Hello Menno,
It all started out with air in the radiator. Did all kinds of tests, like adding a second coolant reservoir or checking all the electric devices like metering valve, cold start injector plus air leaks, thermostat, water pump, water leaks, clamps, hoses, etc..even pulled off the heads and shaved them. nothing seemed to cure the problem. Last thing was that the idle was unstable and even adjusting the air fuel mixture changed nothing.
Finally I decided to pull the engine out and check EVERYTHING. To my surprise the block was warped and the heads too. Timing gears inner shaft had spun inside the bearing, rings were worn, valve guides were worn, rod bearings were black and rubber on the damper pulley was really cracked.
All this was done at 54K around 100K Kilometers.
Redid the whole engine which included new nikasil on all liners. Did I notice any difference? Yes, big time. Now it's a joy to drive, starts right up, runs smooth, accelerates properly, does not overheat nor looses water.
The only thing I don't like is that being a K-jet Lambda, idle is never "perfect". You don't notice anything on the needle but you can notice how the Lambda sensor is trying to adjust the "ideal" mixture.
All I can say is that it's fair, K-Jets were not designed to use oxygen sensors, that was added later on and only on some models.
One last comment! If you don't adjust the valve clearance to the exact tolerance on all valves, the idle surge will be worse. On a conventional K-Jet you would not notice the difference.

Just my experience,

John