Nice ride, so this may cause considerable offence... Stanceworks 308 GTBi (Honda K24 Swap)

I hear what you are saying. I think there's a misunderstanding somewhere, and it's probably my fault.

I am doing it for myself. That's been my MO since day one. Just because I broadcast it doesn't really change that. I don't care nor mind if others don't like it - it does not bother me. But I do enjoy discussing it. I enjoy pitching my side and defending the logic behind what I am doing.

As said before, I genuinely enjoy debate and argument.

 

I'm okay with that but if you are going to tell us that the meme's and YT click-bombs you're "broadcasting" aren't tailored to get raves from the crowd that just plain wants to see a Ferrari get hacked up and beat I'm going to call you a bit disingenuous. You could definitely make your presentation better if you try to be more balanced and understand more what Ferrari is. I get your desire to make a racecar out of a 308 and wouldn't mind watching you do it but for cripes sake In episode 2 or 3 you didn't even know that was a brake booster! Now if you don't mind me getting a laugh out of that then maybe we can get along.

 

I wonder if the reactions would be different if you were putting in a 355 engine?

I think that's the issue that gets most riled up.

 

Agreed 100%.

The guy who put the V12 in his 308 is hailed as a engine swap ninja and any other Ferrari engine in this project would be looked upon totally differently.

 

Dont sweat the small stuff & FChat people. In the 1700's people thought Mozart's music was risque to listen to .... now see what it is.

 

lost me at but hurt... quid pro quo

 

I have manicured hands ( sometimes ) but like to work on my cars... i just don't have the skill ( or time sadly ) to do it right..... I'd love to take on a project like this...My choice would be a Lotus Europa S2 - and make it into a monster gt47 .... one can dream.

 

It's never too late!!!

 

I think its about taking something exotic and making it more exotic vs taking something exotic and making it ordinary. Like swapping a casio watch onto a rolex band and claiming you've improved it....in a lot of ways you probably have but made it better, but its no longer a rolex really.

I just read a guy bought a kit car for a couple hundred dollars, turned out it was built on a ferrari frame with a BB chevy engine stuffed in....now its a ferrari again and worth millions more than the cost of the rebuild. At some point I'd expect this engine swapt to be undone as well....not that it doesn't make fine sense for the purpose its being done but as the car prices rise at some point there will be a value proposition in reversing the swap but that would likely never be true if a ferrari engine were used in the swapt, that's just how numbers work. There is also a bit of "how hard is it?"....big engine in small car is very hard, small engine in big car is a weekend job in garages everywhere.

 

I don't mind getting a laugh out of the brake booster one bit! I can poke fun at myself (and do on occasion in my videos, to be fair.)

The car is getting cut up only as needed for the build, not for views, not for attention, and not for the sake of excess.

I dislike being told that I don't understand what Ferrari is. I've written history pieces about Ferraris, I've fawned over some of the most incredible examples out there. I have affinity for the brand. I just don't mind poking façade the 308 wears. It's a heavy, antiquated, car on a recycled chassis with astonishingly low power output (the GTBi for the US market, at least.)

I think you guys are right. It's a predisposition against the engine because of what it comes from and what brand name is on it. The folks here will ignore all of the innovation that has gone into the engine platform, the technology behind it that goes towards making it one of the greatest 4-cylinder engines ever built, with incredible power output per liter capability with huge reliability and very low cost... and that's before adding a turbo.

I think you're giving a bit too much credit to the 308 here. There's thousands of them, it's never going to be the next expensive Ferrari. Sure, the values may continue to climb steadily, but its never going to explode. This car won't ever be worth the money and investment it would take to convert it back.
With that said, I still firmly believe I am increasing the value of my car. Not to traditional Ferrari enthusiasts, but if this car were to sell, it'd fetch a lot more than a standard 308.

With that said, I think saying "I think its about taking something exotic and making it more exotic vs taking something exotic and making it ordinary" shows your bias. It comes back to the brand name thing, and the face value of the engine instead of taking a deeper look at it.
Calling what I am doing "ordinary" is disingenuous. It's a hell of a lot less common than a built up F106, or even a 355 or F40 swap, as those are out there, I've seen them.

Now, I'm not claiming what I am doing is more special than those, or better. But saying it's ordinary is silly. This car will be absolutely one of a kind when its finished, and unlike any other 308 ever put together. It won't even be close.

As far as the appeal of the finished product? We can definitely agree its not for everyone, but I'd argue what I am building is far more exotic than most.
Somewhere along the way, it seems like brand identities have clouded judgment, because I'd like to know in what realm a 1000+ horsepower featherweight 4-cylinder 308 "race car" with wide body work, a huge custom aero package, completely redesigned suspension, and more, isn't exotic. It'll be one of the most exotic 308s out there.

 

Here's how I look at it.
Coachwork = pininfarina
Drivetrain = Ferrari

Once you remove the drivetrain, it's just a Pininfarina.

The 308 is iconic, value has nothing to do with it. A great many don't care at all about the valuation and prefer that it doesn't achieve that status. Like it or not the 308 & TR are some of if not the most recognized Ferraris to the public. And to me the big reason someone would pick the 308 for such a project isn't the cost factor, though that helps... No it's because it's such an iconic car, the draw of that alone for people's attention ironically is why many of these hybrid projects are done.

Look at the guys that built the electric 308, they started with a salvage example. But it seems in the long run, while unique and neat... It ultimately lost it's soul.

I could save myself a tremendous amount of work and engineering by using a different or even a modern engine in our builds... But I don't. It's simple really, the 3x8 engine is the heart, it's the reason it's a Ferrari in the first place. So for that, I use modern technology and engineering to keep it running and improve it where possible. Expensive is an understatement...

Ironically, it's not really the engine that needs the most work... It's the chassis! I look at the Alfa 4C and think... A composite 308 or 288 body on that tub would be perfect, swap over the drivetrain.. that would be the modern solution to an actual problem.

Just my 2c..

 

Putting a Honda engine in a Ferrari in a way is a nod to brilliant F1 Engine designer Osamu Goto who developed the championship winning engines for Honda before being poached by Ferrari to lead their F1 engine program

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Yep, Ferrar got Goto, then spent the next 3 years undermining what he wanted to do. sad. same for Barnard, and Posthelwhite...

 

It's the Ferrari way, hire amazing people and then keep them from doing their job. Now THAT would be an entertaining ,if not insanely frustrating, YouTube channel.

 

So I get the whole the 308 is slow, and heavy... cause it is. But for good or bad it's still a Ferrari. It think for many the goal of Ferrari ownership is that its special, its not a Honda, its not a Corvette its not a Porsche. It is something that is rare in the car world. in terms of Ferrari's you have a better chance of seeing a 458 or 488 in the wild than a 308, so they are comparatively rare. the rarity = exotic.

I've had several 308's and I miss them today. I currently have a 599, and the horsepower is all present. it's amazing. Super fast, sounds great and it's a V12 but for looks, the 308 is hard to beat. a 308 with 1000 HP... super rare. Not sure that it was ever made for that... but its definitely going to be a monster. There is a huge pride of ownership with Ferrari's and the 308 has got its status in the Ferrari world and sadly it has not always been great... I think its coming of age, but the sensitivity you are seeing here is from the Ferraristi looking down on the 308's.... its hard to remember what they were like back in the 70's and 80's... when you saw them it was like an alien spaceship! But the Ferrari 308 is a genuine classic, regardless of its weight or lack of power. everyone wants one, when they see it in the metal.

 

Mark probably holds the record for street 308 with crazy HP, best I've managed is 600+ NA.. 500 or so with boost. The chassis is not meant for that kind of power. Mr toads wild ride is tame comparatively. 1000hp.. pointless and dare I say willfully dangerous. North of 350hp that chassis scares me. The aero just isn't there for the velocities and acceleration power like that generates.
To me the sweet spot is 325... More then enough to get sideways but not too much that you're worried about it killing you.

 

I agree. if you are doing a 308 with over 400 HP... you need a comprehensive review of the chassis & suspension setup. I've been in a 288 on a race track, and the straight-line speed is impressive, but the cornering was scary... at least for me. all that lean.... wigged me out. I don't know what a CARMA FF setup would be like or one of the Michelotto 308's handled like, but if memory serves me right there was not much 308 left ... just an outright race car with fiberglass 308 body?

I'm an outlier.I like 308's that have been tweaked. I think the 288 is gorgeous and anything more is ... more! some of the Koenig kits in the '80s were a bit much... but they were different!

 

Here's the thing though, you persist in calling it a 308 but its really not a 308 any more is it?

It may look vaguely like one (but probably not a true facsimile of anything Ferrari ever built), It probably even has some Ferrari metal left in it somewhere; but its no longer a 3 litre car & it doesn't a flat plane crank V8 either.

Those are the things that make it a Ferrari, and those are the things that make it a 308 (whatever the performance of them might be).

Yet you still refer to it as a Ferrari and indeed a 308, when really it is no longer either, however fast it goes.

I wonder, why is that?

 

I don't know your age but it seems a pretty good bet you weren't even born when the 308's were built. You like Hondas? Put up your best from Honda in 1980 (or to be fair, how about 1975) and see how it compares. I'll say it again, you don't understand Ferrari. You've "written history pieces on them" huh? oookaaay....

 

I wanted to add this for balance because yes, you are getting better at the "humble" shtick and it makes your channel better but please, listen to what I'm saying.

 

What do you want me to call it? Lmao. This is a really silly argument. Want me to send you the VIN and a picture of the title? That should clear up any questions about what it is.

I was not alive when they were made. That's relevant how? Can I not be a real Model A guy if I wasn't alive in the 1930s?
No, I don't like Hondas, not really. I appreciate their 4 cylinder engines but they don't make many cars that really appeal to me. As said, I chose the 308 for its looks, not for its power plant.
I wouldn't put a Honda from 1980 up against the Ferrari, because I don't like them. I'd put it up against a Grand National and blow the doors off of it, though. Or I'll take a Lotus Esprit Turbo and outrun it in a straight line AND around a track.

I referenced the history pieces because that's been my job for the last decade, I am a writer. The point of bringing it up is to say I've done real research and put real effort into understanding what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to (some of) these cars. I'm not trying to impress you, I know that won't work.
I'm just explaining I'm not the completely ignorant person some of you guys seem to think I am.

 

I wonder how much stiffer you can make a GTS by triangulating and gusseting the chassis under the floor? Enough to make a difference? BTW, I'm back on the Frankenferrari project - how big can you make the bores (talking new sleeves) without having to machine the block? I don't want to get sucked down the rabbit hole...

 

Following Ferrari's naming conventions maybe something like the "Burroughs Bitsa 244" would be more appropriate?

I'm sure someone could make you up a sticker for the back of it

 

I think finding out the answer to that is next on my to-do list....see what can be done to stiffen it while leaving it a street GTS so no full cage or welding the roof. I"ll post when I get done with my basement and back to the car.

 

Naw, I'll call it a Ferrari 308, because it is one.