458 Contemplating trading my 458 for an F12

For everyday use f12 all the way but not for twisties and not for track thats for sure!


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I would kindly disagree with this. A 458 will destroy an 812 on the track unless the track is almost exclusively straightaways. The only performance advantage an 812 or F12 has over a 458 is straight line speed. The F12 is a GT car that is better for longer drives and everyday use. The 458 is a high performance agile car best for shorter spirited drives and the track. Best world is to own both but if can only own one most would go with 458 and own another comfortable car like an SUV or larger sedan for everyday use.


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Very limited seat time in 458… but with the the sum of all of its parts, the Speciale is so precise and well-balanced in terms of its power delivery, weight and handling.
I will definitely get another S or SA.


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I would ageee. My FF was terrible on track aside straight line speed. Of course the f12 and 812 are different beasts but they are not as agile.


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Everyone needs to own a V12 Ferrari at least once in their lifetime.

 

Why the 599 over the F12?


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Sorry for my poor and ambiguous english, I meant after with respect to the time order, not a preference order (the F12 was considered as the 599 replacement).

 

You will know immediately what you like better if you are fortunate to drive a mid engine v8 vs a front engine v8 or v12 Ferrari back to back on a good twisty road. The rear engine v8 car will feel more go cart like, where you feel seated lower to the ground and the feel of the car entering turns feels more confident in throwing the car into to turn with less body roll and lower and more central center of gravity vs. the front engine V8 or V12 GT Ferrari. The V12 Ferrari may give you more straight line punch and is usually quite a bit different in the character of the sound of the engine at full sing. The front engine V12 is usually the rarer-more special car. I personally, like many people commenting on this thread like the go-cart feel of the mid engine V8's.

 

I would in turn kindly disagree with this - on most track an 812 will actually destroy a 458, it requires a different (and committed) driving style but it's actually very efficient on track (the rear wheel steering also helps). The power advantage is enough to counter the obvious weight disadvantage, even on a relatively small track like Vairano or Fiorano.
The 458 (like most rear mid-engined cars) provides a feeling of agility and facility but it does not make it actually quicker.

 

I said more exciting and more special, I didn’t mention circuit times.

The V12’s are utterly savage and thrilling in extremis. You need your A game. They are more special and more thrilling and challenging to drive when you find roads big enough. They also make a 458 sound pretty ordinary too. “GT car for everday use” might be written in the brochure but that’s about it.

 

Raw vs. Refined, depends on the experience you are looking for, reminds me of the decision I had to make between keeping my F430 or go FF. One of those personal preferences but definitely drive the F12 before deciding.

 

As a semi pro driver (don’t pay to drive nor am I paid to drive) I can say the 458 does destroy the 812 on the track. (Again as long as it’s a track with a lot of twists and isn’t just a track with almost at all straights) I and my fellow pro and paying drivers who were testing that day were lucky enough to drive a 458, 488, and 812 back to back to back all on same tire compound but different sizes at VIR. The 458 was with all drivers consistently 2-3 seconds a lap quicker than 812 and the 488 was consistently 3-4 seconds a lap quicker than the 812. The 812 shined on the back straight given that straight is started from a very slow point but the front straight the 812 didn’t catch the V8s till almost the braking zone in turn one because it was significantly slower off the last sweeping corner so the V8s got a head start by getting off the corner quickly.

Bottom line. If you are after handling performace buy the V8. If just want straight line speed and a comfortable car to drive longer distances the 12s are a good option.

The 12s are “rarer” because there is less demand for them. Go to a dealer (in the US) and you can order a 12 all day long however a 8 is much tougher to get a new allocation.

The 8s will hold value better which has been proven over the last 20 years. Just look at any average similar shape and milage 8 vs 12 and you will see the 8 had significantly less depreciation and tend to bottom out in prices whereas the 12s have huge first few year depreciation and continue to depreciate at a slow pace after the first few years.

Bottom line…..don’t sell the 8, you will regret it and be left w a depreciating 12.


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It's validated by experience that the more flashy V8 depreciate less than than the V12, but predictions are not necessarily logical... if we accept for a fact that the gradual demise of the ICE will make the V8 prices skyrocket, why not believe that the V12 vanishing even faster will support V12 prices in the near future?
Still, as an investment the V8 is probably a safer bet; as a driver's car it's more about personal preferences. The F12 is not a kind of Mercedes limo, if driven properly it delivers real performance.

 

I think part of the issue revolves around perception:

V8 owners are probably viewed more like successful rebels who are living on the edge and dating Italian models, whereas V12 owners seem more like your father, who hasn't died and left anyone their inheritance yet.

I remember I sat in a 550 Maranello once at Ferrari of SF - when I was about 31 and shopping around for a 360 - and the guy with me said, "You look like you're driving your Dad's car".

So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that affects prices when it comes to demand for V8 vs V12 cars.

Ray

 

Ask yourself this.. when's the last time you saw a half naked, sexy model in high heels posing next to an F12 or Lusso?

Much more common to see them next to a 458 Speciale or Italia

Ray

 

this says F12 is 3 seconds faster than 458 around the track - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorano_Circuit

I've also put down better track times in the F12 then 458 (and that is on a twisty tack with hardly a straight)

 

this is a very good point

 

Extremely true words! Lol


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Go drive a F12 and decide for yourself. Travel to find one if necessary. Own the one you want more, don't worry about anything else.

 

I've driven both, and hope to own both sometime soon. The F12 was smooth, wonderful but subdued, even though it has power galore. For long distances, the F12 for sure. My plan is to commute in the F12. For any other distance, I prefer the 458. To me, it just seems like more of an "experience". When I want to go light what's left of my hair on fire, the 458, or any V8 just "fits the bill". The V8 seems like more of an event!

 

Order a 12? Not so easy today. Like, not possible.

 

You’re the exception. F12s typically get in my way on the track! It’s frustrating because they can out-drag you down the straights, but get in your way in the corners. But driven well, the F12 should be faster.


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Get an F12 TDF - problem solved! It's both GT and bat sh*t crazy at the same time. Definitely not meant to be a "Dad's car".

 

At fiorano, miraculously, the 12’s are always faster than the 8 cylinders [emoji23]


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Hrm.... Makes you wonder. Is it because they know how to drive them proper? Or a marketing strategy?