F8 If you already had a Pista - F8 or 296 and why

I actually prefer the SF90. I am largely alone in that assessment, but that’s my position.

 

+1

The 296 looks out of proportion. A bit too squat, like someone stretched it out too much.

And every time I see the 296, I have these flashbacks of the Lotus Evora.

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I gotta say that two factors changed my mind.

1. Seeing on the road is really different than in photos
2. The below photo looks pretty stunning, care of @tfjj

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The same would apply to 296 really. I think both SF90 and 296 are very much dependent upon the right color choice as well as the angle being viewed from. Both have strong street presence - no argument there - as both are Ferrari's with a bespoke element surrounding their overall general appearance.

The darker blues and grays are (IMO) SF90's best colors from what I've seen so far, but again SF90 has very limited angles which flatter the design. SF90's most flattering angles are from the side dead on (as per your pic), or from the front 45% view looking down along the side of the car (as per Coincid's pic), and desirably taken from a lower/crouched position - such as the photo you show here. I also note the majority of marketing pics use these same viewing angles - taken from a low position - as the car is photographically challenged otherwise.

I would also concur with Coincid's account where he quotes the SF90 as having a better shape around the side/rear vent and, without the hump on the rear guard. However the SF90 looks much heavier overall and has that very awkward looking overly complex rear glass arrangement which completely destroys the look of the rear end unless (once again) you view the car dead on from the rear (from on your knees) so you block the rear glass totally out from your vision.

The 296 does not have that issue and the rear looks far more cohesive from a range of viewing heights and angles - although again looks better the lower you view it from.

 

The proportions, as far as measured dimensions go, place the 296 GTB in a sweet spot, IMHO. The SF90 is bit of an awkward proportion. It's length is really not proportional to it's width with makes it look weird when stationary. Looks less odd if your on the road with it. If you were to take the Pista as the gold standard for proportions

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Again these are merely opinions of what looks good to me, and why the 296 proportions actually look really good to me.

I added the T.50 in there for comparison, and if you use that as a reference, images of that look good to my eye from most views except the front view where it just looks a bit too narrow (and it is!)

 

Im on much the same page here. And while 296 isn't perfect it has found a sweeter spot than where SF90 landed and, in more ways than just the physical design if the marketing hype is found to be true.

Pista was a stunner out of the gate and took no time adjusting to, and this is really where Ferrari's design team in future need to be and, should have been be aiming to begin with regardless of how many of these they still may sell.

 

Comfortable road car? You don't own a Pista so how would you know? It is hard in the suspension, it is LOUD in terms of road noise and overall not that far from a Porsche GT in this regard. I had a go in the 765 and did not find it less comfortable. If anything, tyre noise and in-cockpit engine noise was reduced which made it less tiring.

None of them are "barely legal" race cars. Go drive a Ferrari GT3 if you don't think I'm right. But to call the Pista a comfortable road car in comparison to the 765 is silly. Spend 4 hours in the Pista and see how comfy that is.

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Your account of the differences between the 765LT and the Pista underscores how subjective driving experiences are because it stands in stark contrast to my experience. In particular, the noise level in the 765LT is several orders of magnitude different than the Pista, and I am not just talking engine note. The cacophony of banging, buzzing, hissing, and vibrating noises is something that must be experienced to be understood. Are you gave it a proper go? Meanwhile, the Pista for its part is nothing like a Porsche GT in overall noise.

I was asked by another forum member by PM to review the Pista compared to the 765LT. Here is my response:

So I love the Pista, but it could never be my only car. If I could only have one car, it would be the Ford GT for too many reasons to list. Next would be the 765LT. In a strange twist, what I like best about the Pista is just how damn well-mannered it is. I acquired one in more of a luxury spec, and that is what it feels like to me, a luxury sports car. The 765LT feels like a race car with some manners, and I am sure the STO will feel much like that as well. About my only criticism of the Pista is the exhaust note. I have not remedied that yet, and the valves constantly opening and closing at the 3,000 rpm level is truly maddening. Overall, it’s gorgeous, it feels lightweight and nimble, the fit/finish is solid, it feels almost as fast as the 765LT (in fairness, I only drive on the street, no track time), and, most of all, it’s a Ferrari. I really really like the car, and intend to make it part of my permanent collection.

I thought it important for me to provide a counter argument to your Pista/765LT comparison, because my experience is so radically different than yours. As always, YMMV.

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Ok there is no way you can make this statement and not explain it a little bit. You are talking about the 2005 Ford GT correct?

You got some splaining to do Lucy!

 

So is mine , and just about everyone else who have driven or own both. It is unfortunate when blind devotion to a brand coupled with utter disdain for others particularly McLaren and Lamborghini prevent one from seeing reality.

 

My point about the appearance of both SF 90 and 296 is that they are not fully realized and harmonious designs and while they are not unappealing, they are not striking. Unlike the Pista, which upon first glance was stunning from every angle.

 

I'm not against McLaren. I've experienced both, it's my view. You talk about the Pista, but again as asked before, what do you base it off of.

No I don't like Lamborghini, but that's not about blind brand loyalty to Ferrari. If that was the case, do you think a 911 Touring would be on my mind, or the fact that I think the Caterham 620R is one of the most fun cars to drive? No. I respect the 765LT and understand what it can do. My point to you was simply to say that you cannot classify the Pista the way you did, and I think it is wrong of you to do so as you on several occasions have admitted to not having Pista experience.

If I thought the Pista was perfect, do you think I would do to it what I've done? No. I know it's not perfect out of the box and I'm not brand blind.

How do you view your postulate that I'm brand blind, coming from the fact that you talk about a car you don't know? Let he who cast the first stone and all that...

 

One thing I found having experience with both the Pista and Pista Spider is this. How they are specced actually make quite a difference. How the interior is fitted for example, actually make a lot of difference in regards to how it "sounds". Back when I first experienced the 991 GT3RS I was surprised at how much of a rattle box that car was. Not in a negative way, but you could hear the diff, the joints, the tyres etc. Then getting into the Pista Spider with a super comfy spec. All of it was gone. Then getting back into a stripped Pista Coupé and a lot of it is back. You don't hear the balljoints like you do in the GT3RS for example, but you do hear the engine, the diff etc. And with Cup 2R shoes on it, the road noise is brutal.

What tyres a car has, actually makes a big difference. A Pista on K spec normal Cup 2 or MPS4S is a different feeling than on the Cup 2R. I have fund the same to be the case with Trofeo R's. If your 765 is on Trofeo's and your Pista is on regular Cup 2's that might also account for some of the difference. The Trofeo and Cup 2R is just a much more rough tyre to drive on.

Another thing I found make a big difference is the wheels.
The CF wheels as you see below fitted to the car at present, are MUCH stiffer than the alloy wheels. Just swapping between alloys and CF wheels on the same car makes a difference from a comfort standpoint. Also after doing the alignment, that also changes a few things as the car becomes more flat and the anti sway bars get more of a preload on them.

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But yes I agree that it is super subjective.

 

When the comparisons are made by those who have experienced the cars under discussion, they are overwhelming stock as supplied by the factory. All cars can be tuned to alter their driving dynamics for differing venues.

 

I had my Pista for about 2 years and drove it every chance I could + a couple track days. I had the carbon wheels and ran aftermarket wheels as well. Pista is one of my all time favorites for many reasons and I plan to have another. The next one will be modded to be more aggressive, lowered, exhaust, tune, more aggressive suspension settings, etc. For me it was not nearly as aggressive as the 765 stock to stock but I'm fine with that. They both have their place in a garage. I think Cadster has it right with his selections for keepers. Same for the STO.

 

really not that bad, try an aventador s, spirited street driving around 100 miles. it's a complete joke. no idea about the rest of the aventador range.

 

Enjoying all the banter back and forth about these magnificent automobiles. I missed a golden opportunity earlier this year to pick up a Bianco Italia Pista at FOCF, but the timing just wasn’t right. I can’t imagine I’d be disappointed owning one.

Over the next 6-8 months, I expect to take delivery on the F8 spider and a STO. The F8 is a known entity to me, it just felt right when I demo’d it. Say what you wish about ‘lacking soul’.

OTOH, I’m a bit unsure about the Lamborghini - if it’s really more for tracking I may join the club in Tampa (though I’d prefer VIR as I know the founder and think it’s a better venue). So I’ll take a wait and see approach as to whether it’s a keeper or not.

The hard-driven 458 remains a keeper, and I may get in line for the 296 spider, but that’s realistically two years away.

 

Spot on, Mr. Cadster. Pista is definitely more luxurious and refined than I had expected. This is a good thing, especially considering the staggering performance abilities of the car. When I step straight out of the GT3RS and into the Pista, it is quite pronounced. Pista is a lifetime keeper. Nothing else like it, never will be again. Without an F8 VS forthcoming, the Pista has a permanent place next to my Ford GT.

 

Yes, 2005 Ford GT. It’s not my favorite driving car at the moment (my 765LT occupies that slot), but it’s my most indispensable car. It just checks so many boxes. To quickly sum up my position, I figured I might just repost what I previously wrote. They do a good job of describing my position. I posted these thoughts in the American Muscle sub-forum which gets almost zero traffic, so hardly anyone has likely read this before:

1). American Supercar. This matters. At least it did to me. Something about having the Blue Oval stamped on the front. It’s almost like the everyman’s exotic. No offense to anyone (as I have mentioned previously, I own a Ferrari and a Lamborghini), but the Ford GT probably does not polarize near as much as other high end cars. The easiest way to say it, at the risk of drawing ire, the ****** factor is about as low as you can get with the Ford GT.

2). Analog. Bolt action. End of an era. Millennial theft deterrent device. I still can’t get over how much I enjoy being reunited with the hand shaker. Plus, no nanny’s. None. Legit widow maker.

3). Bullet proof. It’s reassuring having a 15 year old car that carries nearly zero risk of going boom. I know that this reason alone keeps the value high. Aspirational buyers can stretch out for this car knowing that they are not going to get whacked with unforeseen repair bills. Servicing the car is relatively easy. I mean, it’s a Ford. Tons of owners do their own maintenance. Can’t really do that with your Pista.

4). Timeless design. Could be 5 years old, could be 50 years old. The design is epic. Plus, unlike many cars, it gets more beautiful and more contemporary as time moves on. Again, no offense, but think about some of the cars that came out at the same time (I won’t name them, don’t need to, you know what they are), those cars show their age. At some point those cars will be back in favor again, but for now, they look their age.

5). Modern performance. The weight is relatively low, and with 550 HP base, and with 700 HP available with a couple easy mods (x pipe, pulley, tune), you can create real modern speed. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s not nearly as fast as my Performante or 812, not even close, but the way the speed is delivered creates a strong impression of speed. For now, I have no plans to go beyond the base power delivery, but it’s nice to know that I could reach for a little more if I needed it.

6). Relatively mileage insensitive. Unlike other cars of its genre, each mile does not fully crush the value. Clearly, the powder puff, diaper rubbed, garage queens have more built in value, but the driver’s cars pull good money too. Think about what 10,000 miles does to just about any other car, and then think about what that does to a Ford GT. Not that I care about miles, I’ll drive this car with complete impunity, hoping to clock 1500-2000 miles per year.

7). Rare enough. So, many of these cars were exported over the years, while others were destroyed in accidents. It’s a matter of pure speculation, but I guess there is somewhere around 3000ish still on US roads. That number is low enough to preserve pricing, and that preservation of pricing has its own appeal for many people. Even before CV19, I had probably lost well over $100,000 in less than a year on my 812. That won’t happen on the GT, and that fact alone helps with pricing stability.

8). Racing pedigree. I think the Ford v Ferrari movie (which I personally thought was rather well done) gave the car a little pop. Certainly more visibility was placed on the car in the near term. Over time, the racing heritage means something to many.

 

I’ve always been tempted by the GT but waited too long to pull the trigger as I’m unwilling to pay current market prices. I’m a fan of American muscle and added my own Supercharged V8 to the collection a few years ago. The lines and proportions of the C6 ZR1 make it one of the most attractive late model Corvettes to my eyes. It’s also very compact compared to modern cars.

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That’s phenomenal. I love American muscle. I grabbed this one last year during my bout with COVID boredom. Nothing quite like American muscle. Zero blanks given.

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Fantastic looking T/A that pairs nicely with the GT. My exposure to Dodge has been limited to a Demon that I sold to make room (literally - it’s huge) for the SLS BS. Part of me regrets parting with it.

 

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The real question is whether you are into the hybrid experience. We had three SF90 for the Experiencia Ferrari event last week. You are at the mercy of the driving mode setup and you can never be fully sure of the mixture brew..if you care about knowing. Turning esc off is playing with fire. The Factory driver could not answer or give tips on driving the SF90. Point and shoot i guess. So for me , keep F8 for a while as DD. STO for drama, maybe v12 Lambo. My friend hates his 812 after less than a year. Says warming the tires does not”work”. Power delivery issue for him. The styling direction for F is a head scratcher but the faithful will still buy them for sure. Nothing like a Ferrari for many.

 

If I had a Pista I would NEVER consider an inferior F8 or 296. I would add an 812 no questions asked.


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