F8 If you already had a Pista - F8 or 296 and why

Chris Harris did mention it was hard to drive the sf90 and not super magical but it sold and sold well. I think 296 will be easier to
Drive


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Great car, just not super rare


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Cadman, how are you liking the Pista? Continuing to fall in love?

 

Honestly, I had no idea how many C6 ZR1’s were produced as it didn’t factor into my purchasing decision. I just liked the car.

I did a quick search and it seems to be around 4,700 cars over 5 years, so still less than the number of Pistas produced based on component supplier intelligence that’s been shared on FChat.

 

I think Pistas are closer to half that.

 

My impression based on what I’ve been able to triangulate from Fchat posts over the years is around 6,000 Pistas and 3,000-3,500 Speciales.

 

Seems way too high. That would account for about 30% of their total production by year. Doesn't seem right.

 

The love affair continues to grow. It’s tremendous. Best of all, it doesn’t overlap much with the 765LT. Other than the fact that both are “rip your face off” fast, they don’t have much in common. It’s a long term keeper. I always lusted after the Pista styling and my spec is incredible. That I enjoy driving it as much as I enjoy looking at it is an even better bonus.

 

Consider that the Pista was the only mid engine V8 model in production for a period in between the 488 ending and F8 launching. The numbers may seem high but become more believable when you consider the above, the duration of Pista production, the number of cars received by dealers as well as information from component suppliers who shared their production information with FChat members.

The Pista is a great car, but rare it is not.

 

Agreed, if for no other reason, no torque vectoring, just boost at the flywheel.

 

Wasn’t the component supplier thing debunked a bit because F8 was announced subsequent to that fchat comment, with the same engine? UK is normally 10% of global volume, might be more. There were 547 Pista and Pista Spider registered in UK at the turn of the year, which will include some LHD imported cars. I don’t know the split but probably about 1,000 - 1,200 Spiders worldwide, probably about 30 UK LHD cars. So around 400 UK Pista coupes, could even be less if a few more spiders made it here. Might give a global figure in the region of 4,000 coupes. Some assumptions there but with 547 coupe and spider in the UK at the turn of the year, it seems rather unlikely there are 6,000 coupes in the world.

 

To add some context, there are 310 Speciale coupe registered as being in the UK, which will also include some LHD. So, without question it seems like significantly more Pista. I would guess a few more LHD Speciale made it here, perhaps 45, so 265 UK supplied cars, 2,650 globally. It’s guesstimating but I think it basically works. You could say 2,500-3,000 Speciale, 3,750-4,250 Pista to get rough proportions. Feels about right. Hardly ever see either of them on the road other than my own ones.

 

I thought you fitted a valve controller? I wouldn't waste time driving a Pista without a valve controller unless you were on a racetrack or giving it plenty up the hills. Anywhere else you may as well be in a Lexus its so quiet and this is precisely when you need the controller to have the valves open all the time.

And re all this fuss going back and forth about the Pista and 765lt and which is the more hard core the 765 as I've said before 765 rides no harder than a Pista when the 765 is in comfort setting but as a package the 765 unquestionably delivers the more immersive, exciting driving experience than Pista including 765's sound and the sensations given off in the exhaust and the likes when you are on it. Pista in the same situation feels the more conventional in this area for sure - which leaves it in second place overall....but is still a great drive. Pista just lacks that genuine organic feel to the steering and chassis behavior which 765 has in spades.

765 is faster, corners better, steers better, shifts better, brakes better, is more connected, has better ergonomics, and noticeably more emotional as a drivers car but I wouldn't confuse all of this as meaning the 765 is a race car even though in comparison to the Pista it certainly feels more like one. It comes down to how you interpret the feelings each car delivers but make no mistake when it comes to ride comfort they are both very dailyable in the right settings. Id also agree the road noise in 765 is not louder than Pista and in ways is more pleasing as all the elements in 765 work in synergy with one another to provide the right type of experience a car like this should have.

 

Whilst I’m at it and catching up on this thread, what on earth was that conversation about benchmarks? Of course Ferrari is the benchmark. Doesn’t mean it’s the best. A ‘bench mark’ is a measure, a comparator - the clue is in the word itself. Ferrari is ubiquitous - everyone knows what it is. They are the market leader in exotics so, for better or worse, they are who people compare to. The people on this board who say the 765 is better than Pista, F8, whatever, are doing exactly that, using Ferrari as a benchmark. Journalists do it and the general public does it also. Porsche get exactly the same with the 911, doesn’t necessarily mean that is always the best either, just that it has always been the benchmark.

It also has to be true by definition that a percentage of owners don’t really know too much about what is the ‘best’ car, they just found themselves able to afford a nice, exotic car, wanted one, and ended up in the red team. I think people really know what they’re buying when they buy a McLaren. By definition that makes McLaren ‘not’ the benchmark. Benchmark suggests ‘obvious, normal, standard’. It’s one of the problems that goes with the kind of success that Ferrari have had over the years. I doubt their designers would enjoy those terms and work hard to rise above them. They have done a far better job at that than BMW in my opinion - one of the brands who also suffer with this problem of being an obvious choice by having become so successful.

As for the 765, I reckon it’s a great car. I’d like to want one but I’m just cold on McLaren. I do lots of fast road and track driving. There are other tools in my garage such as the GT2 RS and Pista that give brilliant thrills in those circumstances, from brands I’m not ‘cold’ on. I love seeing McLarens and Lamborghinis (another brand I’m cold on) and have full respect for those cars whenever I do see them, on the road but especially on track. I just don’t want to own one at the moment, it’s not completely logical but it is completely real. That doesn’t have to make me delinquent in any respect and the term fanboy is obviously only meant as derogatory. I only have so many days on earth, I want to drive cars that I love more than cars that I respect and Ferrari and Porsche do that for me in the sports/exotic arena. I have other ‘loved’ brands for other purposes too. I’m guessing we all have to feel like that. If a brand I loved didn’t thrill me in the driving department, I would have to look elsewhere but since both Porsche and Ferrari do at the moment it’s all good.

Either way, I don’t think anyone should apologise for buying and driving what they love instead of what they are told they should love by someone else and that works both ways.

 

Lukey Ferrari may have been a benchmark at one point in time in certain areas - mainly F1 and brand recognition to the "Hoi Palloi"- but as you point out a benchmark is a means to measure something. So if Ferrari is the benchmark as you claim please explain the benchmarks which you refer to.

And re 765 theres no point reckoning its a great car because that means nothing until you actually drive one. Btw hows your gt2rs going?

PS if you want a Pista to drive anything like a 765 you will need to spend a bit of money on it and play around with it like Il Co but it probably will still fall short. The 765 is a cohesive package where all the elements are working in perfect synergy with one another. A bit like the 2rs you could say, where the recipe of blending all the elements is spot on for this type of car.

 

To clarify, I understood the 6,000 to represent coupes and spiders combined. Your additional data point of UK cars seems to further support the validity of this figure. Adding F8’s would likely more than double this.

 

To interject, the number of 510 UK Supplied Pista & Pista Spiders combined is a Dealer Consensus chat. So that makes me believe the 6000 Total Worldwide is a combined Coupe & Spider number, probably split 4200/4500 Coupe & 1800/1500 Spiders.

 

I would keep the Pista...

The F8 would be my second choice based on looks and engine.

Not a fan of the 296 so far...maybe that could change when I see it in the flesh, but it’s doubtful.

 

Benchmarks would be the usual stuff; what does it look like, how fast is it, how expensive is it, what is depreciation like, what does it sound like and of course, what does it feel like to drive. Brands thrive on this comparison stuff and challenger brands, like McLaren, positively thrive on it. I remember when Ron Dennis originally said “in every possible metric we can demonstrate we have built a better car” when they first launched the 12C. Perfect challenger talk, if a bit missing-the-point from the perspective that people don’t really buy statistics, they tend to use them to justify the choice they already made for a variety of other reasons, many of which are not easy to articulate but mostly associated with how it makes the owner feel or what they can afford.

I bought a brand new McLaren before I bought a brand new Ferrari. I was interested in the story, they always built carbon cars so their first ‘mass’ production roadcar was also carbon, it had active aero, was new and fresh, had a brilliant driving position and cool tech, and, it was British just like me. But I also got a big lump off the car, which at the time meant it was possible for me to purchase. So you could say my purchase decision was emotional and financial. My roadtrip buddies mostly had 458s and I must admit, I enjoyed the fact the 12C had 625hp v the 458’s 562 bhp, plus all the other ‘statistics’ I could use to feel good about my purchase. Were those statistics at all relevant when it came to whether the 12C or 458 were better? Not really. When we bought our Speciale, everything else was irrelevant. I absolutely love that car and still have it. It wasn’t faster, some might say it was less technologically advanced, all probably true. I just loved it, the way it drove, it looked, the noise, the drama, everything. The 12C went.

When the Pista arrived (still have that too) it was measurably better in every performance department than the Speciale and I do love the Pista. But I still love the Speciale, possibly even more. If you say the 765 is measurably better again than the Pista, I believe you. I could buy one, I just don’t want to - it doesn’t say “come and get me” like the Pista, to me at least. I have too many other cars I’m interested in; our SF90 arrives on Monday and though I know that’s not your cup of tea, two friends who bought one and were originally sceptical, absolutely love it. I’m looking forward to 1,000hp with new tech in a new Ferrari platform. If I get bored quickly it’ll be sold but I’ll have been glad to have had the experience, just like with our long-departed McLaren. I also bought a 512M recently, a rush of red-blood to the head but the car is in absolutely beautiful condition and I am really loving owning and driving it. I can’t tell you why. It’s slow, doesn’t brake like a Pista, or handle like a Pista or go like a Pista. But it sounds amazing, looks incredible on the road, has that open-gated shifter that makes me work for my enjoyment and is 26 years old with all the inconvenience that brings. So why do I love it so much? Honestly, haven’t got a clue. But when I see it in the sunlight, all the slats and the width and that shape, it makes me stop and catch my breath. It has sparked emotions I didn’t know were there in me.

As for the GT2 RS, everything you said about that car is spot on. I have driven it on a few track days at Silverstone GP circuit and also at Goodwood circuit. I have one more at Silverstone and another at Donington with it and one at Goodwood where I’ll use the Speciale. It’s due back today from the dealer after a precautionary oil change and fitment of Cup 2Rs. It is fast, has a unique and very aggressive motorsport-style sound, is a little heavier at the rear but still really faithful on track. Somehow it seems a more serious piece of track kit than the also-brilliant 3RS. I let my 18 year old son drive it around Silverstone with an instructor. First time for him to drive anything over 150hp and first time for him on track and therefore on Silverstone! My lap times on cup 2 are in the 2’28” to 2’30” region (I could go a little faster but it’s a pretty expensive car and I still have the carbons on). His lap times were 2’48” straight away. I was really impressed….and disappointed! I used to be able to ski much faster than him, not any more. I hope all my hobbies don’t go the same way! The car is simply a piece of outstanding engineering and I love it. I’m sure you could say on that basis I would enjoy the 765 and I guess I would but trying to get my head around too many cars reaches a law of diminishing enjoyment I think. I wouldn’t be looking to use a McLaren on track in place of the Porsche, of that I’m certain. Quite interested in this new Tequipment Manthey Racing kit - I’m running standard geometry and specs currently and have a few friends who have advised looking at Manthey alterations.

 

No valve controller yet. Still working on it. My dealer is 4 hours away, so I must clear some logistical hurdles first.

 

“ I could buy one - I just don’t want too.”. Funny comment.

 

Purchasing an exotic car is based upon many factors but is essentially emotion based. The purpose of the car is to enhance ones enjoyment of life. If a Pista accomplishes that purpose while a 765 will not, then a Pista it is. For others it will be the 765 and for some, it will be both.

 

Pretty much bang on. If it were not for the 765, the Pista would be my choice. But once you experience the 765, the world changes forever.

 

Great post Lukey. I completely understand where you are at. I thought you'd enjoy the GT2 which is kind of why I'm giving you a little nudge on 765. I would keep your eyes out for the right spec coupe if one became available.

 

Not happening.