I am so thankful your voice of reason, and data presentation, is here on FChat to continually combat the bombastic hyperbolic claims of the uninformed.
Wow my nightmares have returned. I find the human race must undergo systemic change or the end is near! Unless the world goes completely nuclear(ahhrgh!children with two heads!)for electric power with wind and solar to make it look good; outlaws all flames (brick up those fireplaces or else! Cigarettes and cigars?gone!-that’s a twofer- no lung cancer!Matches? Gone! Diesel? How last century!); change the way we eat(Cows? Eliminate all of them! Btw I wonder how many vegan virtue signalers own Ferraris and obesity probably kills more humans per year than all forms of pollution combined)we will be spiraling the drain! Come on everyone! Get a life! All our Ferraris produces less noxious fumes and particulate debris in a year than one diesel train across the US in one trip. The EU regs are for the EU only. It will take a long time for Ferrari to reach the 10K threshold especially since Great Britain left the EU. I will be long dead and buried (and not due to global warming or pollution but most likely due to an MI, cancer or accident due to life’s choices I’ve made. Now back to the matter at hand- the 812 replacement predictions- V12 9400 rpm Hybrid assist Aluminum chassis with a bit more carbon fiber composite Front mid engine (prefer rear mid but hope springs eternal) 3700-3800 lbs Call it the 912- 900 hp with the assist Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
If n/a with assist, I think we could expect more than 900 hp. As always, it must be faster and more powerful than the regular mid engined car, i.e the 296. As it is much newer than the Sf90, I think they might look into same or better power to weight ratio. Like I said, the hp wars are raging, and with other hybrids on the market becoming faster and faster, one could easily assume that Ferrari won't hold back. 1600-1700 kg znd 1000+ hp is not that far fetched. As for a mid enguned V12 replacing the SF90? No way. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I think the V12 will remain a sports GT, not a mid engined car. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I think 900 to 950 would make the 912SF very competitive and close to the the 812C in performance on track(definitely faster in a straight line with the hybrid assist) If they keep it front midengine which is what I think they will do it is in a different niche than the SF90 where they can turn up the turbos and refine the assist to the 1000+ range with ease. Different appeal for each car As much as I like rearmidengine handling they have become too generic looking in the Ferrari line They need a new design language. If they did put a V12 in the back then I might reconsider Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I imagine the new V12 Ferrari is working on (per Leiters and Galliera) will be hypercar only and then maybe an Icona, seems doubtful it will appear in a regular series model, especially if the FUV is doing well (by 2024) and increasing factory output to more than 10k annual production and that this new V12/Hypercar will be revealed in 2023 or later and, chances appear very good it will be hybrid assist and, gasp, maybe turbo too (if making the V12 smaller displacement, then I believe they will have no choice unless they want it to have less power the the SF90 replacement)
That’s possible, but would Ferrari be willing to accept Lambo offering a V12 in their flagship super (not hyper) car? This is where I’m struggling. Hard to imagine Ferrari would concede this to their main Italian competitor.
A replacement Aventador has been promised for many years...we may still be referring to the latest iteration in 2023 and not a new model. little history: from January 2017 ( no possible release date mentioned ) https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a32436/lamborghini-boss-confirms-the-aventador-replacement-will-have-an-n-a-v12/ from September 2018 ( with 2020 as possible release ) https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23479701/2020-lamborghini-aventador-next-generation/ from November 2018 ( with "probably 2021" as possible, "confirmed" by the factory ! including hybrid Huracan replacement) https://www.thedrive.com/news/25003/lamborghini-confirms-aventador-and-huracan-successors-will-be-plug-in-hybrids point is, none of this is 'solid', with VAG running the show after FPK's demise in August 2019 (above was prior to then...) Remember, FKP is why Lamborghini exists today, now he is gone, so, with him no longer in charge at the highest level of the company, things will change... And Audi (whose V10 is source of the Huracan's V10) has now "confirmed" they are done with all ICE NOW, will only modify existing engines for Euro 7 compliance, so no changes to the V10 other than for compliance?? https://www.thedrive.com/news/39799/audi-is-done-developing-new-internal-combustion-engines Audi's board chairman Markus Duesmann told German media that it's already the beginning of the end for combustion engines at Audi. "The EU plans for an even stricter Euro 7 emissions standard are a huge technical challenge and at the same time have little benefit for the environment. That extremely restricts the combustion engine," Duesmann told Automobilwoche. "We will no longer develop a new internal combustion engine, but will adapt our existing internal combustion engines to new emission guidelines." https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/audi-sets-2026-end-date-combustion-engine-cars-sueddeutsche-zeitung-2021-06-17/ and now, the Aventador replacement is now 2023...and will be hybrid: https://www.autoweek.com/news/future-cars/a36462352/lamborghini-boss-stefan-winkelmann-on-the-companys-new-strategy/ He tells Autoweek why the pure-combustion automaker will be dead by 2024 Winkelmann confirmed to us that “the follow-up to the Aventador will still be V12, so the sound issue is not something we need to take care of because the engine will still be there, and it will still have the right sound.” ...Winkelmann admitted it is a longer-term project. But he confirmed that Lamborghini has no plans to continue producing combustion-only road cars beyond the arrival of the plug-in powertrains, even for those parts of the world where they could still be sold indefinitely. === So, maybe Ferrari will do like Lamborghini and their V12 flagship will be very expensive and low production volume...we'll see, tricky predicting the future, especially when there are so many possibilities !
@ScrappyB Forgot to mention, the latest Aventador (SJ ?) is being announced this week ! (July 7) https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/news/lamborghinis-latest-model-is-about-to-be-unveiled tagline: It takes time to become timeless, and it's not long now before you can get to experience something we consider the last of its kind. Would be nice if Ferrari had more clarity of what they are doing with the V12 and regular series vs hypercars
Yes, I saw! Curious to see what this model entails but it’s most likely a parts bin special. The limited edition Countach homage will probably look special, but be very expensive and mechanically ‘just’ an Aventador.
Do we need more power, honestly my 812 GTS is at the limit of the tyre upto 4th gear, and easily breaks most country max speed legal limits within circa 4s, but does it in a wonderful organic way, with an amazing sound track etc etc… I don’t need anymore power, (nobody got out of my lesser powered F12 - for me a future classic - and said “it needs more power, nobody”), for me if the next car could deliver the same / similar power with a smaller, higher revving NA V12 + Hybrid, I would be very fine with that, the next car should be lighter, with more chassis dynamics, trade some engine capacity + hybrid for weight and performance + that higher revving a screeching sound (improved handling, braking, feel, weight transfer, dare I say sound ?) - Sort of sounds like what the Competzione could have been…? Would be perfect in the new world (whatever that looks like) Only my opinion….But given the current legislation, I would be ok with that future outlook. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I'm sorry but I do not include electric motor ratings with the ICE engine in hybrids. The LaF has 800 CV, SF90 has 780 CV (turbo) and 296 has 663 CV (turbo). We are going downhill fast. The displacement is pitiful. Just the way it is.
We are sitting here witnessing the death of the gasoline engine and the V12. Get it while you can because I think it's going faster than anyone really is appreciating.
As much as i hate to admit it i agree with this 100%. Ferrari peaked with the 812 series and will go downhill from now on.
I say this with obvious bias and add that the peak was *prior* to adding a particulate filter to the 812 engine. It is quite perceptible the filter forever changed the sound dynamics. To some not critical at all and to others a profound transformation going forward with the brand.
I’ve heard the argument about Ferrari being a smaller volume manufacturer than Porsche, but Ferrari’s corporate decision to force GPF on the U.S. market played a major role in my decision to hit the pause button on new purchases. I also struggle with the new exterior and interior design language. My next Ferrari will most likely be a tdf, GTO, SA, etc. Congratulations on your stunning tdf, Marcel.
All the haptic controls have been causing numerous issues including in beneficial test drive videos. And in some cases the voice activation is also less than useful. Would be nice if Ferrari at least offered the option of a more conventional interior trim with physical buttons and dials, so much easier to keep the eyes on the road when everything you need is discernably touchable. For instance, McL's controls via touchscreen are all but completely unusable when not stopped. They apparently even put the lift control under a few menus on the touchscreen. I find technology for technology's sake only, and not because it is actually better, to be a major impediment to driving fun. So, "back catalog" cars are where's it's at, for the moment, maybe car manufacturers will learn....great HMI does not include haptic and touchscreens for the driver, that's backwards, the car should work for you, not you for the car.
For many people sound of the 812 with GPF is more attractive because of the lack of the two silencers ( previously present in the version without GPF ) . I think at the end is only a matter of taste and apparently the version with GPF is even louder.
The GPF cars are louder on startup but quieter when cruising and light on the pedal. Up the revs and it sounds great to my admittedly older ears. I’m sure the cars Ferrari produces will get quieter and quieter- noise regs becoming more common- and they will try to maximize and improve what sound than can make as is mechanically possible. By then I will probably be nearly deaf- so at least for me is a non sequitur Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
