How Will it Age??

My spider configuration is supposed to be submitted very soon. I’m excited to add this car to the stable!

Having said this, I’m curious what others think about the future of the SF90? More specifically, is it hurt at all by the addition of the 296? Is 7/10ths the performance for half the price a better decision? How long until the battery requires replacement, and what will it cost? With advances to hybrid and then EV technology, what’s the outlook for SF90 values?

Lastly, I’m torn about whether to tick the AF box or not. The front lifter is of interest to me, but the AF looks better. If I did opt for AF, it would be without the stripe. Will that hurt or help the value? Will a non-AF car not be as desirable?

Thanks in advance!

 

All good questions, GC. Hard to say. Especially the question about the potential for depreciation caused by the 296, which will be Ferrari's 2nd and, perhaps, more sorted/evolved EV venture. Only time will tell.

Given Ferrari's history on batteries and electronics, some trepidation and second-guessing must come from Ferrari's first venture into EV. How long before batteries will require replacement (likely, at an injurious cost to the owner) - one can only guess, but I imagine future values are beholden to how well the batteries perform, how fussy they are, and how long they will last (and how much they cost). If this car can stay out of the service bay, then values should, at the very least, hold.

Regarding the AF package, the lack of a lifter option for the AF is the only thing that would cause me to balk. And, yes, I think being able to opt out of the anchor striping is certainly an enticement to go for the AF. I have lifters on all my Ferraris, but my advice would be to go for the AF if that's the only issue at hand. Regarding re-sale, all potential second hand AF package customers will already have this knowledge as they enter the space, so it should not register as a deterrent to them.

In the end, just know that you will have one super badass rig that will, in short order, put just about anything in the rear view - and that much or most of the value of a car (especially this one) is derived from driving it. If that ends up being the case for you, then drive on and sleep soundly.

 

7/10ths of the performance? I doubt it is anywhere near as low as that. It might feel like 7/10ths but in reality it will be 9.5/10ths at least. These two cars will have very similar performance in my view. Our SF90 arrives today and I’m really looking forward to it. I’ve heard surprisingly good reports from people I trust who have them, the kind of people that would absolutely say if they didn’t like it, regardless of being an owner (example, one took delivery of a FGT, didn’t like it, sold it - among others). They say the SF90 is great to drive.

I think the 296 has a chance that it will drive even better - lighter, to all intents and purposes similar power-to-weight ratio. The 296 will definitely be sold in much higher quantity. This is something that will mean that SF90 retains a more elevated place in Ferrari history. It was their first PHEV, what that means I don’t know but first is first. It has 1,000hp. I think that also means something. I bought a 512M recently and I love it. I don’t expect it to be as light as a 355 a d it isn’t. But what it is is powerful, commanding, rare, very imposing to look at and drive. Neither the 512 or 355 are the last word in braking, chassis dynamics or aerodynamics any more so the track lap times are irrelevant in judging these cars. How they make you feel is brought more sharply into focus as cars age. I think that’s how history will view the SF90. How does it make you feel? My own take is that the commanding appearance and presence, a V8 engine (soon we’ll unfortunately be saying “remember those?”) plus what is reportedly very subtle and engaging chassis dynamics, will mean it is regarded well in the future.

Unless my logic is wrong, I hear people often talking about being worried about Ferrari hybrids given the poor quality batteries they use. These two things sound linked but in fact are worlds apart. A motive hybrid system has almost nothing to do with the 12V auxiliary power system found on all recent Ferraris. You wouldn’t get very far if it did! I’m not sure who Ferrari use to provide the hybrid running gear but there are not very many companies who do this. Whoever they have used will be supplying other OEMs and the reliability of the genre across all manufacturers will have more to do with how good this system is rather than Ferrari’s poor history with the 12V auxiliary battery system.

296 will be brilliant and almost all of the performance of the SF90 but it will feel different. The big boy won’t be diminished by the 296, nor will the 296 not be worth owning because of the bigger car. I reckon Ferrari got this exactly right - V8 v V6, high-tech all-wheel-drive chassis v rear wheel drive, heavyweight power v lightweight agility. It’s like Testarossa v 355 all over again!

 

Agree with most, especially how it drives and how it makes you feel. But the performance difference will be closer to 7/10ths than 9/10ths in my opinion. The quoted figures of 0 - 124 mph of 6.7 secs v 7.4 secs translates to a large difference at this level. I’ve been lucky to drive a AF car on track and some of the HyperCars and this SF90 AF is comparable. 2 people I trust say this SF90 AF is closer to 6.4 secs, which is phenomenal. Of course a RWD 800 hp v AWD 1000 hp will be more fun. Look forward to seeing your AF photos later.

 

This is why i said “Ferrari’s history on batteries and electronics.” In the last three visits to my Ferrari dealer, there have been six SF90s in for service. Two of them were there for “battery and electronics issues.” As was my 812. And, just as my 488 had been.

 

Quick trip to my dealer today: Another SF90 sidelined by battery issues - the Aptiv behind the seats had to be removed. Car is 6 months old.

In speaking with my service manager, she said that Ferrari requires that the SF90 be tendered whilst dormant (said Ferrari has a way of remotely monitoring this) and that owners drive the car at least 2,000 miles per year. If either of these terms is not satisfied, the battery warranty is voided.

 

Can any owner corroborate that they have this in writing ie a contractual term ?

 

@greyboxer

Maybe not everyone yet realizes the Aptiv reference, I believe that is a reference to SK Innovation as they are the battery supplier for the SF90:
http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=36038

SK Innovation has been selected as the battery supplier for the SF90 Stradale, Ferrari's first mass-produced plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) model, industry sources said on Sep. 15. Ferrari picked out SK Innovation after more than two years of checking and assessing products from many battery makers.

Aptiv seems more involved in autonomous driving tech...

As for Ferrari "remotely monitoring" I presume (but do not know) that the huge roof fin conceals a cell-phone device that enables the car to always be in contact with the factory (except when underground/etc where no cell tower signal is available)....those "cell phone devices" are used in all sorts of cars, you don't pay for their cell service, the factory does...

As for the 2000 mile/year warranty, found this:

https://www.cauleyferrari.com/commonqa/

Ferrari’s policy is very strict on this matter. Ferrari will absolutely not warranty your battery for any reason if you do not accumulate more than 2000 miles in a rolling calendar year. Then if you do meet this criterion, they will only replace it if it fails to pass many stringent tests performed by us, the Ferrari dealer. If the battery is able to be recharged back to 100 % capacity then Ferrari will not install a new battery or pay for the recharge. They will however pay for the towing to get your car to the shop and back again if you are still in Factory warranty coverage or extended power warranty coverage.

I believe that is simply referring to the standard 12v battery, not the huge EV battery pack...though it would likely be similar...

 

Maybe she segued on the fly and I didn’t catch it, but I believe my service manager was referring to the EV as she mentioned a $30k replacement. And then she referenced the approximate replacement price for a LaF EV.


Aptiv PLC Profile:

Aptiv PLC, formerly Delphi Automotive PLC, is a global technology company serving the automotive sector. The Company designs and manufactures vehicle components, and provides electrical and electronic and active safety technology solutions to the global automotive and commercial vehicle markets. The Company's segments include Electrical/Electronic Architecture, and Electronics & Safety. The Electrical/Electronic Architecture segment provides complete design of the vehicle's electrical architecture, including connectors, wiring assemblies and harnesses, electrical centers and hybrid high voltage and safety distribution systems. The Electronics and Safety segment offers a range of electronic and safety equipment and software in the areas of controls, security, infotainment, communications and safety systems.

 

That is the Ferrari policy for the regular 12v battery. It may apply to the EV as well. I had a car that needed battery replacement and I was told those exact terms. I paid for the battery out of pocket .


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Thank you,

so, can you clarify what "Aptiv" device was needing replacement in your car? Since the battery pack is behind the seats I presumed it was that, but maybe it was the connector/other interface?

 

It was not my car. It was an SF90 (I don’t own one) in for service. The frunk - or what is left of it - was open and looked like something had been detached and removed. The rear lid and the driver’s door were also open. Looking into the cabin, it appeared as though whatever was behind the seats was invasively unfastened and removed. I think that would be an EV battery and the Aptiv or parts of each thereof? In any case, the whole area appeared to be cleaned out of whatever was originally there. All that appeared was a small plate that read “Aptiv,” which I recognized since I own their stock.

It would be good if someone who owns an SF 90 could describe what is and isn’t in those areas. I am just not familiar enough with the car, especially from an internal visual standpoint, but it was clear significant items were removed.

 

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Lol!

All of the green and orange stuff was gone!

 

Yikes, that's not good

 

Unless they put that in writing somewhere and you sign an agreement, I fail to see how they can do that. Something that specific must be clearly stated in the warranty conditions. Ibsuggest you call Ferrari customer service and get a confirmation on that one.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Understood, but it’s not my car and I don’t expect to own one. I cannot verify if what I was told is true, but the service manager was quite fluent in the language of terms and conditions. She has seen many SF90s with the same problems.